Hyde Park, safe or unsafe neighborhood (Boston, Quincy: renters, homes, to buy)

[missionhill]

Originally Posted by Whatsnext75

Whatsnext, what is the neighborhood all the way east on Park St?-- Mill St and around there?

Wellesley park? That's an area of dot that few will ever be able to afford.

No, it's closer to Morrisey Boulevard, small neighborhood between the redline tracks and Freeport Street. Park Street runs into it. Mill St is another street there. Has some old mansions, large lots. Kind of like OTB but I don't know much about it.

[Whatsnext75]

Cedar grove area? Melville ave? I dont know Dot neighborhoods that well off the top of my head i guess, lol.

I know that if i wanted to live in dot i'd choose the lower mills area or cedar grove area. It sounds like they are doing savin hill area over, but dot ave is overrun with druggies and hookers. No thanks. I'd rather not live that close to that and have to pay for that.

[Whatsnext75]

I guess it's best to not hold one's breath and hope that a neighborhood will improve. It happened in somerville but it seems like that took over 10 years. I recall in 2001 my friends both moved to somerville, David sq and the area just seemed ok, nothing to brag about living in somerville. However the fact that they were young white women spoke volumes. There aren't many, if any young white women looking to settle down in dorchester or hyde park after college graduation. Forget about mattapan or roxbury. theyre not a safe or fun area for them. Sadly this is where race comes into play in these situations. If white people don't feel safe living in those neighborhoods they won't go there and basically the neighborhood won't flourish. The black and Hispanic people who live in these neighborhoods are not doing anything to improve them. My question is why do neighborhoods always get worse when black people move in? im not being racist, i just want to know of anyone has an actual answer. The Asians improved fields corner, sounds like that has spilled over into savin hill.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Whatsnext, They dont get worse. Compare Boston crime in 1980 when the city was 70% white to now when its 45% white. The crime doesn't actually get worse. Usually maintenance of lawns does but that a cultural thing in the South and Caribbean. Lawns and home maintenance arent nearly as big as they are in New England. The perception when people see dark skin and unkept lots is that things are rough. IN reality there is a true subconscious fear of black people that isn't the fault of particular white individuals but more so historical and media contexts. In addition to this crime was higher in Dorchester when it was was half white in the late 1980s than it is now. By a long shot. But it hen whites see people unlike them who have been type cast as dangerous doing dangerous things that crime and danger gets magnified. Its like people forget about all the old ethnic white gangs. Black people also generally have weak social networks when it comes to helping advance into corporate America and the drug network is more plentiful for many ordinary blacks. It take exceptional individuals who are given breaks to leave the old neighborhood AND the mentality of deprivation. A lil sociology for ya. Or if you think im just spitting out excuses or "liberal whatever or a race card" you could just look up crime stats for white males and balck males over time and see both groups declineing but white crime declined much faster after the 1970s due to Reaganism that disproportionately benefited whites. The reason blacks dont like Reagan is because ECONOMICALLY under him things got much worse. One could say things trickled down to the blacks in the 1990s but its debatable...or you could just glaze over this comment. The only reason im getting an attitude is because people feel they can make back handed insults about black culture and people here because our numbers on this site are limited and we can get ganged up on. And that shouldnt be how it is.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by missionhill

Great question. Hard to know, but the poor have few defenses against big real estate interests unless, as others have pointed out, they're living in public housing or subsidized housing. That's true in other areas of Boston but not to my knowledge on Meetinghouse Hill. There are lots of places to move-- Massachusetts is full of smaller cities like Brockton that attract poorer people who can't afford to stay in Boston.

Whatsnext, what is the neighborhood all the way east on Park St?-- Mill St and around there? People are always talking about Savin Hill OTB as a choice neighborhood in Dorchester but this Mill St area seems almost as nice.

Brockton Lynn Everett Revere NB FR Taunton Chelsea etc. if young and getting their feet wet or are truly desperate. Usually pair up with an SO to afford more reasonable rents.

Randolph Stoughton Avon Everett Malden Bridgewater etc. if more established with kids and lower middle class income.

[missionhill]

Apropos of white gangs, Wallace Stegner wrote an angry piece in the Atlantic Monthly way back in 1943 about white Catholic gangs beating up Jews along Blue Hill Avenue. The prejudice was fanned by Father Coughlin's antisemitic radio broadcasts. And I've read that in the 18th and early 19th centuries the North Enders and the Townies fought pitched battles with clubs, etc, over territory.

[Whatsnext75]

well you yourself said hyde park has basically gone to sh*t. I actually tried defending it. You also said it's mostly black now. So...what does that say?

[MassNative2891]

Originally Posted by Whatsnext75

I guess it's best to not hold one's breath and hope that a neighborhood will improve. It happened in somerville but it seems like that took over 10 years. I recall in 2001 my friends both moved to somerville, David sq and the area just seemed ok, nothing to brag about living in somerville. However the fact that they were young white women spoke volumes. There aren't many, if any young white women looking to settle down in dorchester or hyde park after college graduation. Forget about mattapan or roxbury. theyre not a safe or fun area for them. Sadly this is where race comes into play in these situations. If white people don't feel safe living in those neighborhoods they won't go there and basically the neighborhood won't flourish. The black and Hispanic people who live in these neighborhoods are not doing anything to improve them. My question is why do neighborhoods always get worse when black people move in? im not being racist, i just want to know of anyone has an actual answer. The Asians improved fields corner, sounds like that has spilled over into savin hill.

You know both of those neighborhoods are just way too large for that generalization. I personally know quite a number of White women who live in these neighborhoods. Not all are college graduates, but about half of them are.

And Roxbury??? C'mon. You know better than that. Roxbury will be unrecognizable in about 10 years.

[MassNative2891]

Originally Posted by Whatsnext75

well you yourself said hyde park has basically gone to sh*t. I actually tried defending it. You also said it's mostly black now. So...what does that say?

Huh?

People have a perception that Hyde Park is crappy now. Doesn't mean it's true. Hyde Park near Mattapan has always been a handful since as long as I can remember. The rest of the neighborhood just happens to have Black people now.

Is West Roxbury becoming a ghetto now too? West Indians have started moving there.

I don't see how this implies that the town has gone to sh*t.

[ormari]

Originally Posted by Whatsnext75

I guess it's best to not hold one's breath and hope that a neighborhood will improve. It happened in somerville but it seems like that took over 10 years. I recall in 2001 my friends both moved to somerville, David sq and the area just seemed ok, nothing to brag about living in somerville. However the fact that they were young white women spoke volumes. There aren't many, if any young white women looking to settle down in dorchester or hyde park after college graduation. Forget about mattapan or roxbury. theyre not a safe or fun area for them. Sadly this is where race comes into play in these situations. If white people don't feel safe living in those neighborhoods they won't go there and basically the neighborhood won't flourish. The black and Hispanic people who live in these neighborhoods are not doing anything to improve them. My question is why do neighborhoods always get worse when black people move in? im not being racist, i just want to know of anyone has an actual answer. The Asians improved fields corner, sounds like that has spilled over into savin hill.

What sparked Somerville's gentrification was the end of rent control in Cambridge circa 1995. Landlords jacked up prices in Cambridge and as a result, students and others renting in Cambridge fled for Somerville. In approximately 1997, Utne reader named Davis Square in Somerville to its top 10 list of hippest places in America as a result of the influx. At the time, most of my friends and I were living in Somerville while in grad. school nearby; we couldn't believe the placement on the Utne list. Even with the influx, as you note it took well more than 10 years for what you see now. And lots of Somerville wasn't really considered safe by the student population back in the mid 90s.

Hyde Park isn't surrounded by Tufts, MIT, and Harvard.