What's wrong with Atlantic Station? (Atlanta, Alpharetta: 2014, city hall, townhouse)

[roadtrip75]

Originally Posted by muxBuppie

Yes, all hip hop is so violent and misogynistic, lol.

Of course, generalizations cannot be proven by individual exceptions (argument by anecdote is the mark of intellectual weakness). But let's look at one of your examples of tame hip-hop:

The theme of this rap is that the rapper is great . To be more accurate, the theme is that he's BETTER THAN YOU. He is more concerned with establishing dominance than in entertaining his audience. This theme is is so common in rap that it might be considered the fundamental basis of the genre. In fact, it is. The origins of rap are actually Jamaican street party MCs bragging that they are better MCs than the guy a few blocks over. Why does this obsession with dominance resonate so strongly in black audiences? I don't suppose it matters why, but the pattern itself does matter.

[ATLTJL]

I look at the suburbs and laugh at all the poorly constructed homes and massive retail developments, sure they're nice and new now, but wait 20-30 years and they'll be just as ghetto as cities up north with deteriorating neighborhoods, sketchy areas.

That's a subject for much debate. You can already see it happening for sure in a lot of Atlanta's older suburbs. Just drive along Windy Hill and Atlanta Road into and around Smyrna and you can see what time and neglect do to a suburb. I think you make a very valid point.

However, I also think that some of the suburbs will be able to survive. Sandy Springs has pretty much survived the test of time because there is wealth there. You might say that it could almost be considered an intown suburb, but that certainly wasn't the case when it was built. REMEMBER, when Perimeter Mall opened in the 70s, the primary concern was "Who in the world is going to go all the way up there to shop?"

So fast forward 20 or 30 years. If Forsyth, Cherokee, and other areas keep developing, communities like Johns Creek, Duluth, and Alpharetta may start to seem like "intown suburbs." They have so much wealth, it's hard to believe they will deteriorate. Do you really think the people who live in Country Club of the South, St. Ives, etc. are going to let their leaders get away with not keeping up the streets? Do you think they will support shops that don't keep their appearances modern and attractive?

I would have much more concern for areas like Tucker and Lawrenceville, places that just don't have as deep a legacy of concentrated wealth.

[roadtrip75]

Originally Posted by nedergras

Maybe if you put in a train station (or subway) like it's name sake would lead you to believe there is one, then it'd have more business. But what do I know, I'm just some guy that used to live in Europe.

Atlanta is nothing like Europe, in case you haven't noticed.

Originally Posted by nedergras

Like I said, Atlanta has absolutely no foresight.

Or perhaps they have better foresight than you? Why build a neighborhood to high standards if the good residents are going to be pushed out after a few decades?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by nedergras

If there were a train station, wouldn't it be logical to have a subway line connecting to it? Like I said, Atlanta has absolutely no foresight.

There was plenty of discussion about both HSR and a light rail/subway line. They are in current transportation plans and may well be built in the not too distant future. There simply wasn't funding for these things at the beginning of the project. The buses and the shuttle are an excellent interim compromise.

While Atlantic Station is far from perfect it sure beats the abandoned steel mill that used to be there. I agree that a lot of the apartments were done on the cheap but hopefully they'll be replaced by higher quality structures in due course as this area builds momentum. The office buildings are Class A, and the retail, hotel and highrise condos are substantial.

[nedergras]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

That's a subject for much debate. You can already see it happening for sure in a lot of Atlanta's older suburbs. Just drive along Windy Hill and Atlanta Road into and around Smyrna and you can see what time and neglect do to a suburb. I think you make a very valid point.

However, I also think that some of the suburbs will be able to survive. Sandy Springs has pretty much survived the test of time because there is wealth there. You might say that it could almost be considered an intown suburb, but that certainly wasn't the case when it was built. REMEMBER, when Perimeter Mall opened in the 70s, the primary concern was "Who in the world is going to go all the way up there to shop?"

So fast forward 20 or 30 years. If Forsyth, Cherokee, and other areas keep developing, communities like Johns Creek, Duluth, and Alpharetta may start to seem like "intown suburbs." They have so much wealth, it's hard to believe they will deteriorate. Do you really think the people who live in Country Club of the South, St. Ives, etc. are going to let their leaders get away with not keeping up the streets? Do you think they will support shops that don't keep their appearances modern and attractive?

I would have much more concern for areas like Tucker and Lawrenceville, places that just don't have as deep a legacy of concentrated wealth.

If fuel costs continue to rise and there aren't any viable alternatives, people will move back into the city, but the wealthy would've already beaten them to the punch and bought out and gentrify all the good neighborhoods. So it'd be more expensive to live in the city, but would be worth the expense if fuel costs are high and commutes are high. The existing outlying suburbs will just turn into ghettos if everyone with a decent job moves back toward the city.

My uncle lives in Acworth and I already foresee most of Acworth eventually turning into a ghetto, it's already happening with more lower income apartments, and I'm sure his neighborhood has more lower income residents that rent from slumlords that took advantage of the housing crash and bought out every cheap property they could get.

Whats funny is that some of Atlanta's wealthiest residents live downwind next to a coal burning power plant. What a city.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by nedergras

If fuel costs continue to rise and there aren't any viable alternatives, people will move back into the city....

Seems to me they would want to move closer to their jobs, and in most cases that is not in the city. Even most workers who reside in the city commute to work out in the suburbs.

[ATLTJL]

Where in Europe are you from? As if there's no industry in the UK or France!!!!

Anyway, you are wrong, and it's probably due to your European outlook. No offense, it's not bad, it's just different. Americans have much more of a frontier attitude and are more likely to make sacrifices to have space. Wide open spaces, that's kind of the mantra. I don't deny that the idea of high density city living is gaining traction, but it's not going to destroy the idea of people who want space.

Especially in the suburbs I mentioned. Not only is there enough wealth in those areas for the people who live there to be generally unaffected by gas prices no matter how high they rise, you forget that many people in those areas do not even commute. Some commute, some work near where they live, some work from home, and some travel. You also neglect to remember the free market. Remember, gas can only rise in price so much before people start to demand public transit and car companies respond by making highly efficient vehicles (like the ones they have in Europe!) and finding viable alternative fuel sources. High gas prices are simply NOT going to make Americans less mobile, because we are a people who refuse to be immobile. Right or wrong, it's our history and culture.

I haven't been to London, but I'm sure it has mansions in the nearby countryside, doesn't it? I bet Paris does, too. All the wealthy people do not live in the cities, even in Europe.

Using Acworth as a barometer is a huge mistake. It was never a high quality suburb to begin with, so you're right, it probably will turn ghetto. As will a handful of others. But by no means will all of them. North Fulton will be just fine.

[nedergras]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Seems to me they would want to move closer to their jobs, and in most cases that is not in the city. Even most workers who reside in the city commute to work out in the suburbs.

Buy a house in Sandy Springs then, values will skyrocket eventually.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by roadtrip75

The theme of this rap is that the rapper is great . To be more accurate, the theme is that he's BETTER THAN YOU. He is more concerned with establishing dominance than in entertaining his audience. This theme is is so common in rap that it might be considered the fundamental basis of the genre.

I can't argue with that but the Hammer's dominance was short-lived once parachute pants hit the mass market.

[nedergras]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Where in Europe are you from? As if there's no industry in the UK or France!!!!

Anyway, you are wrong, and it's probably due to your European outlook. No offense, it's not bad, it's just different. Americans have much more of a frontier attitude and are more likely to make sacrifices to have space. Wide open spaces, that's kind of the mantra. I don't deny that the idea of high density city living is gaining traction, but it's not going to destroy the idea of people who want space.

Especially in the suburbs I mentioned. Not only is there enough wealth in those areas for the people who live there to be generally unaffected by gas prices no matter how high they rise, you forget that many people in those areas do not even commute. Some commute, some work near where they live, some work from home, and some travel. You also neglect to remember the free market. Remember, gas can only rise in price so much before people start to demand public transit and car companies respond by making highly efficient vehicles (like the ones they have in Europe!) and finding viable alternative fuel sources. High gas prices are simply NOT going to make Americans less mobile, because we are a people who refuse to be immobile. Right or wrong, it's our history and culture.

I haven't been to London, but I'm sure it has mansions in the nearby countryside, doesn't it? I bet Paris does, too. All the wealthy people do not live in the cities, even in Europe.

Using Acworth as a barometer is a huge mistake. It was never a high quality suburb to begin with, so you're right, it probably will turn ghetto. As will a handful of others. But by no means will all of them. North Fulton will be just fine.

I used to live in Germany, I'm just going by what I saw in Europe, and what they do works. What we do is starting to show it's not working. What we're just going to build low density residential neighborhoods forever? Not if gas prices dictate how people should live. Also you're wrong about the wealthy living in the countryside, most wealthy Europeans live in the larger cities, near the centers where all the tourists love to go. The UK is a different story, the wealthy owns all of the countryside, sort of like parts of Georgia like the Woodruffs who own most of Western Georgia.