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There was a talk on TED on a study done looking at groups that had unusually long lives . Some were religious, others were not. I think the only religious group studied was the 7th Day Adventists, which preach healthy living and eating pretty hard. But it was interesting that on the 4 or 5 factors the study indicated led to longer lives, religion provided many of them as sort of a by product. From memory some were
1) healthier lifestyle ( limited smoking , alcohol, almost no drugs , no hard partying)
2) active social life with friends 3) a sense of purpose . One group in Okinawa, I believe, even had a word for this that loosely translates into English as " the reason I get up in the morning".
None of this need be religious, but religions seem to foster many of these . A non religious friend of mine gets all the above through golfing every day, walking not riding . His reason for getting up is golf, he walks miles through pretty scenery every day, he socialized with friends , and generally eats fruits as snack while he golfs .
The reason to exist is one the most powerful forces on Earth
I’d also suggest (based on other research) to take a moderate, symbolic approach to religion, rather than extreme and literal. And realize that no 2 people will agree/believe the same on everything. Appreciate what you do agree on. And enjoy a good sense of community which generally, religion provides best.
Canadians are less religious than Americans and have a life expectancy of 2 and one half more years so perhaps being a Canadian atheist I will live about as long as an American theists. ☺
I doubt believing in a God for the purpose of living longer would be honest nor affect your life span. And as I am a light drinker, measuring drinks per year instead of drinks per day, non smoker and am not without friends according to that study I wouldn't benefit much from believing.
Could or would you convert into a Muslim, Jew or Mormon if their life expectancy was longer?
Very good. To be persuaded to give up everything you think worthwhile, you need to offer more than a mess of porridge.
P.s These believers really don't understand us. It's surely this idea that we are just angry at god or going through a phase or had some bad experience at church. I think we understand them pretty well, but they don't understand us. They do not know what a treasure of the mind atheism brings us. It is (an analogy or metaphor i used a long time ago) it's like being in a small dark and indeed warm, safe and cosy little cottage. Then you open the door for the first time and go outside.
They seem to think that we are like kids or primitive savages. They just have to hand us a handful of toffees or a plastic toy, a string of shiny beads or some cheap firewater and we can be herded into church. Really don't get us at all.
Very good. To be persuaded to give up everything you think worthwhile, you need to offer more than a mess of porridge.
P.s These believers really don't understand us. It's surely this idea that we are just angry at god or going through a phase or had some bad experience at church. I think we understand them pretty well, but they don't understand us. They do not know what a treasure of the mind atheism brings us. It is (an analogy or metaphor i used a long time ago) it's like being in a small dark and indeed warm, safe and cosy little cottage. Then you open the door for the first time and go outside.
They seem to think that we are like kids or primitive savages. They just have to hand us a handful of toffees or a plastic toy, a string of shiny beads or some cheap firewater and we can be herded into church. Really don't get us at all.
No, many theists don't get atheists. The most often response I hear is " why do atheists hate God?". A silly response , as it suggests that people must also hate Santa, the Easter Bunny, elves, Zeus, Thor, and any other being one simply doesn't believe in. Non belief just doesn't compute with many theists .
No, many theists don't get atheists. The most often response I hear is " why do atheists hate God?". A silly response , as it suggests that people must also hate Santa, the Easter Bunny, elves, Zeus, Thor, and any other being one simply doesn't believe in. Non belief just doesn't compute with many theists .
That's what I heard. I have not been a believer myself, ever, so i didn't understand that, but a lot of things that didn't compute were explained later by deconverts. That the theist apologists really do not listen. And they so take God's really as as unquestionable that they cannot comprehend the idea that we really have no god -belief. They are sure we must be lying. It's odd at first sight since they deny the existence of the Other gods, but if you say so they give you a very odd look.
"Of course I believe in their gods - just as they believe in mine. It is all the same God."
Remember, those last 4 years are often full of ill health.
Remember, much of that depends on how you treat your body.
Also remember, that if every person had a sucky last 4 years - having more years to your life would still mean more years to your life - so the sucky part would be postponed.
Yet, again, speak for yourself!
Quote:
Best? You know this how?
By trying to find a sense of community in various places.
What, did you think I’m an alien studying this planet?
Many societies also provide the benefits a church does.
On one side a church may be more beneficial, but at what cost? Restricted rules, the fear of rejection if you think differently, the conflict between the moral outlook of a member and that of the church?
That is why I asked, how do people know a church provides the best sense of community?
Fair point, Harry. It is surely a conditional sense of community. Yet, how much acceptance would you receive if you stood up in an Atheist church (yes they exist) and told everyone you just had a spiritual experience... or if you went to a Pro sports game and cheered for the opposite team from those around you?
Each group requires some loss of individuality to belong. It doesn’t have to be much loss though. I go to church each Sunday - sometimes I teach - but I don’t even believe in Christianity let alone Mormonism anymore. I focus on beliefs we have in common. Ie: Last Sunday, I taught about doing what’s right when you are given choices, and building faith on a firm foundation of truth. Church for me is more about connection - I don’t go to learn spiritual truths. I look for that in things like Taoism and various spiritual, philosophical and psychological pearls of wisdom. But when it comes to people helping each other out consistently over years - I’ve never experienced that as I have through church. Have you?
So, as the longest lived citizens are from Hong Kong and Japan, perhaps Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism or Shintoism might be the way to go. Interestingly, the most religious country on the planet, USA doesn't even come in the top 13 of longest lived citizens.
Yes, so now I’m converting to them!
Actually, I do appreciate aspects of Taoism and Buddhism.
When I went to a Hindu temple, they explained how to them, wasting food is a sin.
Personally, I think I’m all dogma’d out - but I do want to learn about practical religious aspects that help with physical and mental health.
Canadians are less religious than Americans and have a life expectancy of 2 and one half more years so perhaps being a Canadian atheist I will live about as long as an American theists. ☺
I doubt believing in a God for the purpose of living longer would be honest nor affect your life span. And as I am a light drinker, measuring drinks per year instead of drinks per day, non smoker and am not without friends according to that study I wouldn't benefit much from believing.
Could or would you convert into a Muslim, Jew or Mormon if their life expectancy was longer?
Yeah, I’m actually Mormon - or was raised so, & still go but don’t believe much. I go more for the social relationships. My son is about the age when he’s getting pressure to serve a proselytizing mission but after travelling and seeing how happy many are without religion, he decided not to.
I agree that it isn’t honest to invest in a religion just so you could get something. Then again - don’t we all do everything (even “altruistic” acts) because we get something out of it? As Peck wrote, think, “smart selfishness” not “stupid selfishness.”
Carl Jung suggested that believing in an afterlife is “psychologically hygienic.” Who really knows what’s beyond death? Yet the placebo effect is real - so it makes sense to have it work for us rather than against us, right?
Fair point, Harry. It is surely a conditional sense of community. Yet, how much acceptance would you receive if you stood up in an Atheist church (yes they exist) and told everyone you just had a spiritual experience... or if you went to a Pro sports game and cheered for the opposite team from those around you?
Each group requires some loss of individuality to belong. It doesn’t have to be much loss though. I go to church each Sunday - sometimes I teach - but I don’t even believe in Christianity let alone Mormonism anymore. I focus on beliefs we have in common. Ie: Last Sunday, I taught about doing what’s right when you are given choices, and building faith on a firm foundation of truth. Church for me is more about connection - I don’t go to learn spiritual truths. I look for that in things like Taoism and various spiritual, philosophical and psychological pearls of wisdom. But when it comes to people helping each other out consistently over years - I’ve never experienced that as I have through church. Have you?
Don't exactly know what you mean by spiritual experience.
This atheist has always had those transcendental and oceanic feelings identified by William James. I was raised religious, so not surprisingly, I attributed them to god-belief. But after I left my god-belief behind, I continued to have them. My conclusion is that these experiences are the result of how my human brain is wired, and I am pretty sure that most human beings can have them if they are open to them. Trust me, you need not believe in god in order to feel buoyed by these experiences and to feel that your life is hugely meaningful because of them. They're as real as the experience of, say, the color red.
And I will say that in any crowd of atheists I meet, and will find people who know exactly what I mean, because they have them too.
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