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If you don't let the atheist have a voice. That has been the Christian Agenda from the start: "New Atheists - Please shut up and go away".
Anybody remember the "Lee Strobel Film" thread? "How I left atheism, convinced that the resurrection was true based on an impartial evaluation of the evidence by Lee Strobel".
What was it? The Bible -apologists all the way and not a single word from the atheist side. That's what we can expect every time - that's if it's even about the evidence, rather than just finger -pointing.
Here was the greatest voice atheists ever enjoyed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O%27Hair. I had a cousin that was married to her son. She was known as the most hated woman in America after the court ruling to end Bible reading in public schools in 1963. She was invited to many talk shows on National TV with the hope of 'breaking her' and showing off the superiority of religion. But, with logic, she always held her ground and started many people thinking - possibly including myself. It wasn't any two minutes that silenced her; it took greed and murder.
Thanks for that. Madelyn O'Hair (often misspelled in confusion with Chicago airport - maybe that could be put right one day) is often forgotten as the first New Atheist and atheist activist and a hugely influential one, too. She put in place the biggest legal and constitutional block to Christian indoctrination ever, in the world, anywhere. Yet she is overlooked too often because she got herself so hated.
She wasn't perfect; her feminism near became man - hate, and may have been one reason one of her sons became a Christian - for persuasive but actually bad reasons, as usual; but then Hitchen's brother became a Christian for even more ludicrous reasons.
AA is still a powerhouse today, and she started it; "New Atheism" before the term was even thought of.
I have to credit Ayn Rand also. She would go on mainstream TV and talk about being an unapologetic atheist.
I think it’s one of the ironies of life - at least my life - that I think that both these women were generally not admirable people, but I have to credit them for being open about their atheism in a time when that took a lot of courage.
Good point. Atheism is not a religion and does not canonise saints (only to be made to look a bunch of jerks when they turn out to be appalling social criminals like mother Theresa) but produces people, human, and therefore, not perfect.
Thanks for that. Madelyn O'Hair (often misspelled in confusion with Chicago airport - maybe that could be put right one day) is often forgotten as the first New Atheist and atheist activist and a hugely influential one, too. She put in place the biggest legal and constitutional block to Christian indoctrination ever, in the world, anywhere. Yet she is overlooked too often because she got herself so hated.
She wasn't perfect; her feminism near became man - hate, and may have been one reason one of her sons became a Christian - for persuasive but actually bad reasons, as usual; but then Hitchen's brother became a Christian for even more ludicrous reasons.
AA is still a powerhouse today, and she started it; "New Atheism" before the term was even thought of.
Murray was not someone you would want as your hero. She had affairs, apparently hated most men, failed at becoming a lawyer because she couldn't pass the bar , had violent encounters with police and once fled the state to avoid arrest for assaulting police officers, possibly had ties to communism through her husband, who was of questionable character himself, and from what I remember being from TX myself during her heyday was just generally sort of an uncouth beech .
Atheism does itself better with Hitchens , Dawkins, Harris as well as the likes of Penn Jillette.
I know. I don't think I'd want her as a neighbour. But she nevertheless did start atheist activism off. Nobody can take that away from her. Newton had his problems too. I feel the same about Disney, Phil Specter, Wagner and Debussy. But the good that they did can't be disregarded just because they were not very nice to know. Shakespeare, too, despite his appalling view of Jews and women and Jeanne d'arc and Richard III. Tolkien too, whose ambience in LoR I disapprove of, though i love the work. The Religious apologists have a point - don't overlook the good, even if you must roll with the bad.
I know. I don't think I'd want her as a neighbour. But she nevertheless did start atheist activism off. Nobody can take that away from her. Newton had his problems too. I feel the same about Disney, Phil Specter, Wagner and Debussy. But the good that they did can't be disregarded just because they were not very nice to know. Shakespeare, too, despite his appalling view of Jews and women and Jeanne d'arc and Richard III. Tolkien too, whose ambience in LoR I disapprove of, though i love the work. The Religious apologists have a point - don't overlook the good, even if you must roll with the bad.
True, I was responding more to the idea of why she is almost forgotten. While she did undeniably advance atheism, she was just very unpalatable as a representative of atheist ideals, and so I think was sort of allowed to fade into the background. She was strange enough that after having an affair with a guy that wouldnt divorce his wife she legally changed her name to his name ( Murray). She later completely disowned her kid simply for becoming a Christian , calling the act of rejecting him completely and pretending he no longer existed a " post natal abortion".
Lovely person all the way around.
Last edited by wallflash; 09-13-2018 at 06:36 PM..
Agreed. Cutting Off members of your family because they Left the Religion is Not what atheism needs to be about. I can see why she is something less than an atheist heroine. Give me Shirina any day. Damn' sight better -looking, too.
Yes, that was the video. We already debunked the appeal to unknowns (god of the gaps argument) and we suspected that it was a made up narrative to defeat the atheists in absentia. It's good, but not surprising at all, to find that the whole story is fictitious to provide some bias confirmation for the audience of believers.
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If you don't let the atheist have a voice. That has been the Christian Agenda from the start: "New Atheists - Please shut up and go away".
maybe that could be put right one day) is often forgotten as the first New Atheist and atheist activist and a hugely influential one, too. She put in place the biggest legal and constitutional block to Christian indoctrination ever, in the world, anywhere. Yet she is overlooked too often because she got herself so hated.
