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This is about public safety. That's the whole point of this discussion.
I don't care if you smoke. But I care about 2nd hand smoke. That's why you can't smoke inside hardly anywhere anymore.
Speed limits vary between roads and conditions. All of it goes out the window if it starts snowing. An officer can ticket you for driving under the speed limit based on conditions or an exhibition of speed.
Taking the vaccine and slowing the spread so more variants are not created is about public safety.
Status:
"Smartened up and walked away!"
(set 27 days ago)
11,788 posts, read 5,795,007 times
Reputation: 14213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert
So.... you'd rather have gambled with the Alpha or Delta variant and than wonder if the vaccine will have an impact on your health years down the road? I also don't see anyone discussing the J&J vaccine, which is NOT an mRNA vaccine. There was always that option. The delivery method for J&J has been working for years.
Also, California is much larger than Alabama so it would make sense that the infection rate would be higher there. But is it? Out of California's ~39.5M people, the confirmed cases make up about 10% to date. Out of Alabama's 4.13M people, confirmed cases make up about 12%. Alabama's mortality rate has unfortunately been higher as well, and less people are vaccinated.
I am friends (and family) with some nurses who went to NYC pre-vaccine and worked. They all took the vaccines as soon as they were available as the description of what they saw there was horrid. Where does this 33% number that you reference come from? Not saying it isn't possible, but I haven't seen the data.
The 33% has been published in several newspaper - including liberal ones. As far as the vaccine given - you really didn't have a choice here where I am - you took what the pharmacy offered when you could get an available appt.
The fact is that 20% more people in California have been fully vaccinated and you only have a 2% difference between Alabama and California as far as total infected when using the total population.
As far as gambling - even though I'm vaccinated I can get the Delta variation or any other Covid mutation. They are saying that your symptoms will be less but 80%+ of the cases are mild anyway so there is no definitive proof the mild symptoms are a result of the vaccination. Your chance of getting Covid and being hospitalized is less than .42% if I wasn't vaccinated.
I know a lot of nurses in NYC - what they went through was horrifying but more so because NY State and the hospitals didn't disburse the proper equipment to help them or the state refused to buy the equipment in case of an emergency that the National Institute of Health recommend. That is what made it so bad for our workers. Some of these nurses have gotten the vaccine - others haven't and don't plan to.
Status:
"Smartened up and walked away!"
(set 27 days ago)
11,788 posts, read 5,795,007 times
Reputation: 14213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert
The majority may be elderly, but even if it's one person that's close to you it will make you stop and reconsider. I lost a friend in North Alabama AND a family member in South Alabama last week.... neither of who were elderly nor had medical issues. It's easy to post numbers until you have to live through it.
That's the unfortunate part of all of this. We all talk numbers and disassociate ourselves that these are actual people. Someone's mother/father/sister/brother/friend, etc... until it happens. Then the shoulda/woulda/couldas don't matter.
The one thing my sister told me this morning is that she wished she had taken the vaccine instead of lying in a hospital bed losing strength and worrying that she is eventually going on the vent as her breathing deteriorates. Get that phone call, and see what you feel like. I sincerely hope it never happens to anyone here.
I'm very sorry for your losses - but only 6% of deaths due to Covid are without underlying medical conditions. Just because a person looks great or a doctor clears them at their annual physical does not mean that person doesn't have medical conditions that are not yet known as they aren't causing them any problems.
I had my annual physical at the end of Nov. I went to the hospital on 12/23 after seeing my dr for orange urine. Testing indicated I had a huge liver abscess. They said it'd been growing for awhile and yet I felt fine. They had to put a drain in and a PIC line. I was on IV antibiotics for 2 months and oral antibiotics for another 2 months.
The 33% has been published in several newspaper - including liberal ones. As far as the vaccine given - you really didn't have a choice here where I am - you took what the pharmacy offered when you could get an available appt.
The fact is that 20% more people in California have been fully vaccinated and you only have a 2% difference between Alabama and California as far as total infected when using the total population.
As far as gambling - even though I'm vaccinated I can get the Delta variation or any other Covid mutation. They are saying that your symptoms will be less but 80%+ of the cases are mild anyway so there is no definitive proof the mild symptoms are a result of the vaccination. Your chance of getting Covid and being hospitalized is less than .42% if I wasn't vaccinated.
I know a lot of nurses in NYC - what they went through was horrifying but more so because NY State and the hospitals didn't disburse the proper equipment to help them or the state refused to buy the equipment in case of an emergency that the National Institute of Health recommend. That is what made it so bad for our workers. Some of these nurses have gotten the vaccine - others haven't and don't plan to.
Do you have data to back up these percentages? I've seen numbers that say around 2/3 have been mild with no hospitalization within the first 28 days, BUT it also goes on to say that ..."69% of the test group had at least one outpatient visit between 28-120 days to get a new diagnosis for symptoms such as cough, shortness of breath, chest or throat pain and fatigue. Researchers also found 38 percent of patients who sought medical care saw a new specialist, including cardiology, behavioral/mental health, and pulmonology, among others. " So while it may not be severe enough to require hospitalization during the infection, it might be severe enough to have long term effects (as was the case with my wife). My father in law developed some heart issues after getting over his bout with the virus. He's been vaccinated since, but the heart issues are there to the point that he cannot be sedated for shoulder surgery because of a new heart condition. He was turned down. These are personal cases that I know about.
We can all get the variants. That's common knowledge at this point. But the severity of the variants is thought to be dependent upon whether or not you are vaccinated. Delta is not Alpha nor Beta and thus far has been more severe. There isn't enough data out there yet to really say how much more severe it is in comparison.
There is a reason 33% of nurses in NYC who went through the worst of Covid have decided against being vaccinated.
What's the percentage of doctors who have taken it? Nurses aren't necessarily the sharpest tools in the shed. You could be someone who just empties bedpans and feeds somebody jell-o and be called a nurse. That is not something that anyone should let influence their decision.
Since March 2021, there have been over 1,600 COVID deaths in Alabama, not ~100 which "5 per week" would implicate.
Wow. Here is the link. IN the link, you’ll need to click on “deaths” over on the left side of the page, not cases, deaths. The number of deaths since March, is extremely low. About the same number of car fatalities in the state.this website is updated daily.
We could also grab stories of those that suffered major side effects since they got the vaccine. Redstone has had many.
Solution: Why not just put a sticker or get a sticker on drivers license when vaccinated?
Much easier than another card. We do it for organ donations. Gold star is needed to fly.
You sure did type a lot to reply to my post which had absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.
The vast majority of deaths continue to be among senior citizens, and they could get their shots in February…
5 per week which was what was stated is not even close to accurate, so I corrected it.
The point that was made with that long post is that comparing deaths between vaccinated and unvaccinated should begin after 1 March 2021. Nobody could have been vaccinated in 2020 so why compare those deaths to the vax vs non vax.
So everyone is vaccinated, to include religious exemptions, medical exemptions, etc., even kids.
So the variants, and there are now over 20, will require boosters. You think Pfizer is working on a cocktail of boosters?
And for eternity, many vaccinated will still get the next variants and either by symptomatic or not, and they will keep passing it to more and more people. They will be either passive carriers or active spreaders. So when there is 100% vaccinated, people think the world is going to return to pre 2020.
There are still a small number of hospitalizations of the vaccinated, that will continue to cause panic and mayhem, similar to the seasonal,flu. But there will be another round of booster shots and another round. At some point they won’t be free. Flu shots use to cost money. And the effectiveness will not be 100%. Some on here think that 100% vaccinated is some panacea.
I told you I read it. It has NOTHING to do with the 3 big vaccines offered here. That's why no one is talking about it. There's no media cover up and no big breakthrough to your "credible prominent lab guy" and his information. It's completely irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark
No kidding!
Ahem.....the reason they aren't talking about it is because they are not allowed to talk about it. It is the same for Doctors, Nurses, etc. They cannot publicly speak about anything related to Covid or the Vaccines. Only the ones that are tapped as the publicist are allowed to speak and give out information. It isn't a conspiracy or any of that nonsense, it is just a documented link and concern but no-one knows whether or not it will surface in a couple of years. It is in fact relevant but hell myself nor most of us in this discussion are in the high risk group for contracting HIV I would not think. So I guess on that front it is irrelevant to us. Your reaction was expected though because you are not going to be open to any form of discussion about how the vaccines were rushed to the public and there may be unknown future side effects. I cannot wrap my head around how you can be so adamant that the vaccines are 100% safe when the fact of the matter is we only know one thing 100% for certain at this point and that is that know one really knows what may develop.
The point I was trying to make with giving you that information is that the vaccines have not gone through long term clinical trials to watch for these types of possible long term unintended consequences. However, if they do surface you will then hear the narrative "Well we had to rush the vaccine out to save lives and we did not foresee these long term developments." lol
Where I see this all going is the variants will keep coming and it will turn into an annual vaccine ritual where about 50% of the population gets the latest Covid vaccine similar to Flu vaccinations. Regardless of what we do here in the US, you cannot canvas the entire world and force the vaccines on all the populations. The variants seem to keep surfacing in other countries and then spreading around the globe.
Solution: Why not just put a sticker or get a sticker on drivers license when vaccinated?
Much easier than another card. We do it for organ donations. Gold star is needed to fly.
Well the problem with that is there is no universal record keeping of who has been vaccinated. The CDC has absolutely no idea who has or has not been vaccinated. Some states have a system for vaccination records but some don't. The clinic or medical facility where a vaccine was administered should have a record but can you imagine trying to compile all that information and issue vaccination cards? I would be surprised if the Health Department actually has remotely accurate records and if they did, they are already so understaffed there is no way they would ever be able to compile all that data and submit it in a timely fashion.
This is one of those things that should have been considered prior to the vaccines becoming available to the public and a national vaccination database could have been set up just for this purpose. Doing it now in hindsight would be a nightmare.
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Assuming 100% vaccinated
