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What about stopping at red lights? What about not driving the wrong way on a one way street? What about not robbing banks? Etc. The government has rules and laws in place that we are forced to abide. Those rules and laws keep us safe, help maintain a stable society and protects us from one another's foolishness.
That's a bit of a reach to tie it to the vaccine, and using your examples I'll explain why.
People can still run a red light and drive the wrong way on a public street. We are not forced to abide by the law. However, if we're caught breaking the law we are penalized for it and the penalty is on a scale dependent upon the severity and the number of times the person has broken this law. But you are not told that if you decide individually that you aren't going to follow the rules that you cannot drive. You are only penalized when you are caught breaking the rules.
Robbing banks shouldn't even need to be discussed. That's not even remotely similar to whether or not someone takes a vaccine. That one is about the intent and bank robberies are thought out, planned, etc.. and the intent is to do harm whether that is to someone's bank account or people in general with zero disregard for public safety.
I don't believe that anyone who refuses to take the vaccine is making their decision based on malice or any ill-intent and I don't for one second believe that folks refusing to take the vaccine want to see anyone harmed. Their views are typically that the vaccines could do more harm to themselves or the general public. I don't necessarily agree with that opinion but it is their right to believe as they do and we as Americans with freedom should respect that right. This is why it is difficult for me.
My opinion is that people who choose not to take it "should" choose to limit their interaction with the public in an effort not to risk contracting the virus from either vaccinated or non-vaccinated alike. Go do what you have to do to live (groceries, etc..) but return home. Don't go sit out in restaurants, go to baseball stadiums, movie theaters, etc... and subject yourselves or others to a higher risk of contracting the virus.
Vaccinated individuals should still do the same since not everyone is vaccinated. If everyone were, it might be a bit safer to go out in public. I believe that it's safer for vaccinated people to go out and interact more, as even though they could contract the virus the severity should be less for them. But, the risk is that they could spread it to a non-vaccinated person. It's a catch-22.
I don't believe that anyone who refuses to take the vaccine is making their decision based on malice or any ill-intent and I don't for one second believe that folks refusing to take the vaccine want to see anyone harmed. Their views are typically that the vaccines could do more harm to themselves or the general public. I don't necessarily agree with that opinion but it is their right to believe as they do and we as Americans with freedom should respect that right. This is why it is difficult for me.
My opinion is that people who choose not to take it "should" choose to limit their interaction with the public in an effort not to risk contracting the virus from either vaccinated or non-vaccinated alike. Go do what you have to do to live (groceries, etc..) but return home. Don't go sit out in restaurants, go to baseball stadiums, movie theaters, etc... and subject yourselves or others to a higher risk of contracting the virus.
With the way this has been politicized along with the hate and vitriol tossed back and forth by "some" extreme individuals, some of which serve in our government, I don't understand how you can believe any of this. Like... at all.
Expecting unvaccinated people to stay home? For serious?
You can't send kids to public school without proof of vaccinations. Pretty soon this disease should be added to that list. If we get to national emergency levels with a medical system on the verge of collapse, then it could be made mandatory
With the way this has been politicized along with the hate and vitriol tossed back and forth by "some" extreme individuals, some of which serve in our government, I don't understand how you can believe any of this. Like... at all.
Expecting unvaccinated people to stay home? For serious?
You can't send kids to public school without proof of vaccinations. Pretty soon this disease should be added to that list. If we get to national emergency levels with a medical system on the verge of collapse, then it could be made mandatory
I would like to believe that most people normal like us are good people and I have a hard time believing that people are choosing not to get a vaccine with the intention of harming someone else.
I said that people unvaccinated people "should" stay out of the public as much as possible. I didn't say that they would.
I think by and large that people are so untrusting of the Government (with good reason) because of all the political spin that they don't want to take it. I can't fault them for that because we all know that allowing the Government to force us into anything is a slippery slope.
However, I also believe that not getting the vaccine is a risk that most shouldn't want to take and I honestly believe that it hasn't hit close enough to them yet for them to see what could happen if they don't.
My cousin got put on a ventilator Saturday before last. Her husband passed away on this past Wednesday. They cannot bury him because their kids and their spouses and children all have it. He is currently in a cooler waiting on them to recover so that they can have a funeral. She doesn't even know that he has passed away yet.
My sister's best friend (37) passed away from COVIDS on Thursday. No health issues. On Friday, my sister (also 37) was admitted to the hospital in South Alabama with COVIDS and is not in good condition at the moment.
So in the past year, it's been my wife (severe case), my father in law (severe case), myself (mild case), my oldest son (also mild), and now about half of my family down South. We all got the vaccine as soon as we could because we spent the majority of the second half of last year living through utter hell with this. My family down south refuses to take it because they don't trust the Government. My sister has since said that she wishes she'd have taken it if there was even the slightest chance that it could have reduced the severity. She's got bacteria in her lungs and isn't too far away from a ventilator if they can't get it under control.
If they mandate the vaccine later on, I have no issue with that. I don't understand why anyone would, considering that our kids have to provide proof of certain vaccinations before being allowed to come to school. But that's just my opinion and I can't speak for everyone else. I'm trying to look at both sides of the coin.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein
This is false.
Since March 2021, there have been over 1,600 COVID deaths in Alabama, not ~100 which "5 per week" would implicate.
The vaccine wasn't readily available in Alabama until 3/22/21 - and it was a slow roll out. I'm in NY and we couldn't get our vaccine shots until late April which had a faster roll out. Between 3/24 and today - you've had 1188 deaths due to Covid.
You can not force people to take the vaccine and I'm sorry I got mine as the more I read about mRNAs the more I worry that I now have it in my system. We do not know the long term effects of this vaccine and it was pushed through due to an emergency. There have been no large trials of any mRNA vaccine have been completed yet and previous mRNA vaccines failed to pass even the first stage and why since their development back in the 80's, they have never been approved.
To date - California has almost double the new cases each day than Alabama has and has triple the daily deaths. In NY, we have over 3500 new cases a day and had 14 deaths yesterday. We're the Blue state where everyone applauded our Gov who won an Emmy and wrote a book - but we still have Covid and people are still dying - something the news doesn't talk about - they just continue to put the fear in every other state making people believe that they are the hardest hit.
There is a reason 33% of nurses in NYC who went through the worst of Covid have decided against being vaccinated.
The vaccine wasn't readily available in Alabama until 3/22/21 - and it was a slow roll out. I'm in NY and we couldn't get our vaccine shots until late April which had a faster roll out. Between 3/24 and today - you've had 1188 deaths due to Covid.
You can not force people to take the vaccine and I'm sorry I got mine as the more I read about mRNAs the more I worry that I now have it in my system. We do not know the long term effects of this vaccine and it was pushed through due to an emergency. There have been no large trials of any mRNA vaccine have been completed yet and previous mRNA vaccines failed to pass even the first stage and why since their development back in the 80's, they have never been approved.
To date - California has almost double the new cases each day than Alabama has and has triple the daily deaths. In NY, we have over 3500 new cases a day and had 14 deaths yesterday. We're the Blue state where everyone applauded our Gov who won an Emmy and wrote a book - but we still have Covid and people are still dying - something the news doesn't talk about - they just continue to put the fear in every other state making people believe that they are the hardest hit.
There is a reason 33% of nurses in NYC who went through the worst of Covid have decided against being vaccinated.
You sure did type a lot to reply to my post which had absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.
The vast majority of deaths continue to be among senior citizens, and they could get their shots in February…
5 per week which was what was stated is not even close to accurate, so I corrected it.
The vaccine wasn't readily available in Alabama until 3/22/21 - and it was a slow roll out. I'm in NY and we couldn't get our vaccine shots until late April which had a faster roll out. Between 3/24 and today - you've had 1188 deaths due to Covid.
You can not force people to take the vaccine and I'm sorry I got mine as the more I read about mRNAs the more I worry that I now have it in my system. We do not know the long term effects of this vaccine and it was pushed through due to an emergency. There have been no large trials of any mRNA vaccine have been completed yet and previous mRNA vaccines failed to pass even the first stage and why since their development back in the 80's, they have never been approved.
To date - California has almost double the new cases each day than Alabama has and has triple the daily deaths. In NY, we have over 3500 new cases a day and had 14 deaths yesterday. We're the Blue state where everyone applauded our Gov who won an Emmy and wrote a book - but we still have Covid and people are still dying - something the news doesn't talk about - they just continue to put the fear in every other state making people believe that they are the hardest hit.
There is a reason 33% of nurses in NYC who went through the worst of Covid have decided against being vaccinated.
So.... you'd rather have gambled with the Alpha or Delta variant and than wonder if the vaccine will have an impact on your health years down the road? I also don't see anyone discussing the J&J vaccine, which is NOT an mRNA vaccine. There was always that option. The delivery method for J&J has been working for years.
Also, California is much larger than Alabama so it would make sense that the infection rate would be higher there. But is it? Out of California's ~39.5M people, the confirmed cases make up about 10% to date. Out of Alabama's 4.13M people, confirmed cases make up about 12%. Alabama's mortality rate has unfortunately been higher as well, and less people are vaccinated.
I am friends (and family) with some nurses who went to NYC pre-vaccine and worked. They all took the vaccines as soon as they were available as the description of what they saw there was horrid. Where does this 33% number that you reference come from? Not saying it isn't possible, but I haven't seen the data.
You sure did type a lot to reply to my post which had absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.
The vast majority of deaths continue to be among senior citizens, and they could get their shots in February…
5 per week which was what was stated is not even close to accurate, so I corrected it.
The majority may be elderly, but even if it's one person that's close to you it will make you stop and reconsider. I lost a friend in North Alabama AND a family member in South Alabama last week.... neither of who were elderly nor had medical issues. It's easy to post numbers until you have to live through it.
That's the unfortunate part of all of this. We all talk numbers and disassociate ourselves that these are actual people. Someone's mother/father/sister/brother/friend, etc... until it happens. Then the shoulda/woulda/couldas don't matter.
The one thing my sister told me this morning is that she wished she had taken the vaccine instead of lying in a hospital bed losing strength and worrying that she is eventually going on the vent as her breathing deteriorates. Get that phone call, and see what you feel like. I sincerely hope it never happens to anyone here.
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