What is the deal with the insane Bellingham housing market?? (Seattle: crime, mortgage)

[saturno_v]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

I think Hemlock summed it up quite well. It truly is a matter of taste or preference. As someone who loves the beautiful nature of the PNW as well as warm tropical type coastal environments, I see the pros/cons of both. Beauty or in this case value is in the eyes of the beholder. It really has very little to do the physical property (you can buy a mansion dirt cheap in nowhere flyover country). And it has everything to do with location including proximity to the water, views, recreational opportunities out in nature, art, culture, cuisine, airport(s), career opportunities if still working and not remote, etc....

As a prior real estate appraiser for many years it's always about Location, Location, Location, bottom line. Of course having a bigger lot, nicer construction and the like will help, those alone never justify final value and therefore cannot be looked at outside the context of the location. Coastal California along Monterey and Carmel where I moved from is a perfect example of this. Even a tear down home will sell for over 1 million dollars. If you ask me who would pay over a million dollars for a house that needs to be torn down, the answer is many, many would love to especially if there are ocean views!!

So, the real question is not are those houses worth it but rather is living in BHAM itself in those specific location all that? For some it obviously is. Though that is more a matter of taste. But as long as are those who really like BHAM and are willing to pay, the market determines value.

As to Florida, I personally would see the appeal big time since I love the ocean and actually going in the water. That is rather than simply looking out over it while sitting next to a fireplace sipping tea or coffee. But many enjoy just fine from the shore.

Derek

I totally agree with you.

Regarding Bellingham in my opinion I do not see it as particularly unique to justify huge premiums. It is just like "anywhere along the WA coastline" type of town especially for retired folks that can live anywhere. I can think of so many places in coastal WA where you get get a similar "Bellingham feeling" so to speak, there is no shortage of them.

Funny, you mention California...San Diego has been for very long time my #1 desired location for a vacation/eventual retirement home but, crazy but true, I never realized until few years ago that you cannot actually swim in the Californian waters, even in San Diego you will need a wet suit, at least for my delicate skin. On top of that, there are no small protected cove type of beaches (my favorite) in Cali either. That immediately disqualified California for me, I guess I'm lucky so I did avoid the huge Golden State housing premium and income taxes that come with it.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

I totally agree with you.

Regarding Bellingham in my opinion I do not see it as particularly unique to justify huge premiums. It is just like "anywhere along the WA coastline" type of town especially for retired folks that can live anywhere. I can think of so many places in coastal WA where you get get a similar "Bellingham feeling" so to speak, there is no shortage of them.

Funny, you mention California...San Diego has been for very long time my #1 desired location for a vacation/eventual retirement home but, crazy but true, I never realized until few years ago that you cannot actually swim in the Californian waters, even in San Diego you will need a wet suit, at least for my delicate skin. On top of that, there are no small protected cove type of beaches (my favorite) in Cali either. That immediately disqualified California for me, I guess I'm lucky so I did avoid the huge Golden State housing premium and income taxes that come with it.

Yes, CA is also an acquired taste. As a native growing up in SoCal, I did swim in the ocean without a wetsuit almost every day during summer months. And then I wore a lighter spring suit during fall and spring. Only winter required a full wetsuit. So, I acclimated and surfed all year there as do hundreds of thousands of people. I've surfed the waters from northern WA to the tropics and a lot in between. And yes, I prefer warmer water if given the choice.

It's also funny you mentioned Florida since I just returned from a warm up trip down there and love the crystal clear, warm water this time of year. I went SUP surfing without a wetsuit along with my wife. We really enjoy that reprieve from the NW dark season.

BTW, I think you have the perfect combo if you can swing it. Instead of deciding between the PNW or FL, you can snowbird and do both. Many from the north including Canadians do the same exact thing.

Here a pick from last week in paradise.





Derek

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

And for many.... There is no comparing Bellingham to Seattle. Hands down, they would (and do) choose Bellingham.

We haven't seen the tsunami yet, of vast early retirees departing Seattle Metro to settle / resettle in Bellingham.

Some have already done so, many desire to follow. It's not perfect, but a far sight closer than their current, rapidly declining city metro area.

Just following the trend of many desirable places. Cost is not a barrier to those with a dream, and the means to bring it to pass.

I was raised in a very desirable Mtn resort town. Tho I left when it became too crowded for me (1979).. . Today the population and prices are over 20x. No chance to return (I really miss the 'old town', but it will never again be that town).

But it IS 'that town' to the recent newcomers. The price of America! (freedom of choice). To those who can, or are willing to afford it.

Both are special places. You can live without a car in both places, especially if living in the "core" neighborhoods, which can save you a "ton" of money ($775/month, on average, according to AAA). Renting a room-share in a 2-bedroom+ apt/house vs. a studio/1-bedroom apt can also save a bunch of money ($500+/month?). A higher minimum-wage means "workers" have more disposable income.

I was born in Bellingham and lived there until I was 3 1/2 (don't remember it). I lived there twice as an adult (late 60s and late 70s) for about 6 years, without a car. So, I am very familiar with the place (although it's a while since I've lived there).

I currently live in the west Ballard neighborhood of Seattle. Other than my time in Bellingham and a year in the Monterey area of California, I've mostly lived in Seattle since 1961, with and without a car.

Bellingham is surrounded by an outdoor "wonderland" -- Mt. Baker, Salish Sea/Bellingham Bay, Chuckanut Drive, San Juan Islands, and North Cascades NP. Olympic NP and Vancouver Island are reachable via ferry (Coupeville and Anacortes). Vancouver, B.C. is closer than Seattle.

Seattle is still one of the most beautiful cities in the country, surrounded by water and mountain vistas. Seattle has Bellingham beat when it comes to attractions (Pike Place Market, Seattle Center, etc.), museums, galleries, parks/beaches, zoo/aquarium, restaurants/bars, live music, etc.

Seattle is bouncing back, however, from the Covid "shutdown", compared to San Francisco/Oakland, for instance, which are not. Workers and tourists are returning to Downtown. Businesses, stores/shops, restaurants/bars, etc., are mostly open. Petty crime, shoplifting, car thefts, break-ins, drug addiction, homelessness, etc., are still problems. Violence looks to be mostly gang-related. With ideologue "socialists" being replaced by pragmatic "liberals" at the polls, improvements are being made (not fast enough for some, too fast for some others). I feel safe most places, but I'm 6'2" and 200+ lbs.

Real estate prices are quite high in both places (but higher in the Seattle area), due to short supply and high demand. Speculation and foreign investment might be impacting both markets. Rents in Seattle are coming down, with increased supply and decreased demand (including WFH outflows). I'm happy to see Amazon looking elsewhere to expand.

[saturno_v]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

BTW, I think you have the perfect combo if you can swing it. Instead of deciding between the PNW or FL, you can snowbird and do both. Many from the north including Canadians do the same exact thing.

Here a pick from last week in paradise.

Derek

Thank you Derek for the beautiful pic!

We will definitely be snowbirds for the foreseeable future but I do not see spending my sunset years in the PNW. Fantastic place to visit, and very pleasant to live for few months per year but not permanently for my taste.

This is a sunset from my West Seattle home



and this is the sunset from the Lanai of my Tampa home.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

Thank you Derek for the beautiful pic!

We will definitely be snowbirds for the foreseeable future but I do not see spending my sunset years in the PNW. Fantastic place to visit, and very pleasant to live for few months per year but not permanently for ,my taste.

This is a sunset from my West Seattle home

and this is the sunset from the Lanai of my Tampa home.

Sunsets from that Lanai look sweet. I bet you can jump out right there and paddle board, kayak, boat, etc... any time of the year too.

Derek

[saturno_v]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Sunsets from that Lanai look sweet. I bet you can jump out right there and paddle board, kayak, boat, etc... any time of the year too.

Derek

You need to watch out for gators but, yes, people do kayak and paddleboard there. The only admissible boats are very small dinghies with electric motors.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

You need to watch out for gators but, yes, people do kayak and paddleboard there. The only admissible boats are very small dinghies with electric motors.

Not to mention all the fresh water springs nearby! Florida has to greatest number of freshwater springs in the world which many are unaware of. It's another added bonus we enjoy while visiting. You can even paddle with the manatees and dolphins.





Derek

[saturno_v]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Not to mention all the fresh water springs nearby! Florida has to greatest number of freshwater springs in the world which many are unaware of. It's another added bonus we enjoy while visiting. You can even paddle with the manatees and dolphins.





Derek

What surprises many is the potency of the nature in Florida, the vegetation, the blooming flowers, the scent in spring, the fauna...the name itself "Florida" comes from the Spanish explorers that called the land "La Florida" (the flowered one).
Some thinks that the great outdoors are only mountains and alpine lakes....
A couple of Canadian friends are considering retiring in Panama which is obviously much more tropical and it has mountains which Florida lacks. Panama is unbelievably beautiful, Panama City is gorgeous and vibrant.

[homesinseattle]

From my perspective, lots of people retire there, sell their $2 million Seattle/Bellevue/San Fran/LA home and buy one for half that price in Bham. Have heard a number of people say that elements of Bham remind them of Seattle 20 years ago.

[mayfair]

Originally Posted by homesinseattle

From my perspective, lots of people retire there, sell their $2 million Seattle/Bellevue/San Fran/LA home and buy one for half that price in Bham. Have heard a number of people say that elements of Bham remind them of Seattle 20 years ago.

Yeah, but if that trend continues, it won't be like that for long.

And it really isn't just a scaled down Seattle. There's no Pike Place Market (though it has a big farmers market) and just a few small museums. No Seattle Center. No zoo. There used to be a cool railroad museum in Bham my kids loved, but that closed. Bham is a great place in many ways but so much smaller and never had the urban amenities of Seattle.

I think people who move there want something smaller and less hectic than Seattle. They'll find many of the same issues (homeless etc.), just on a smaller scale.

Also a few things are missing like access to good medical (which you'll find around Seattle). There's one tiny religious hospital for the whole county.