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Oh, I guess MtnSurfer & I never lived there. You must know better.
I have to hand to you, you got some action going on a dying forum, mission accomplished in that realm.
I'm not questioning your San Diego living experience, it's a matter of objectivity, the general consensus is that water under 70 F is not comfortable for swimming, I also posted the water temperature guidelines, I did not write them, do not shoot the messenger.
It's like me, coming from Sicily, telling you that the occasional sirocco wind we get from Africa it's all fine and dandy...it is not, it is quite uncomfortable even if I can tolerate it just fine since I grew up there.
Just google "why California water is too cold for swimming" and look at the results.
I'm not questioning your San Diego living experience, it's a matter of objectivity, the general consensus is that water under 70 F is not comfortable for swimming, I also posted the water temperature guidelines, I did not write them, do not shoot the messenger.
It's like me, coming from Sicily, telling you that the occasional sirocco wind we get from Africa it's all fine and dandy...it is not, it is quite uncomfortable even if I can tolerate it just fine since I grew up there.
Just google "why California water is too cold for swimming" and look at the results.
Water temperature comfort levels are extremely relative to the individual and even air temps to some extent. A few examples to illustrate my point.
When I used to lap swim for exercise in the pool, I hated it when they cranked up the heat because the elderly ladies complained during their water aerobics. But they would make a big stink about how cold it was. So, all the lap swimmers would have to roast because of it. Now, step into a true lap pool at a college campus. Initially, you will be cold. Why? Because you need to start exercising to warm up.
When it comes to the ocean, I've logged more hours than most in one lifetime growing up at the beach. I always remember the fairest weather folks usually came from tropical locations like Hawaii. To them the water even in summer was cold. Likewise, when I traveled to Hawaii during winter, I saw some wear shorty wetsuits while many others didn't bother. Why? Because it wasn't cold to the rest of us. When you are actively swimming or paddling, you naturally warm up more than simply dipping a toe in.
Now, take your new home in FL. During winter months the ocean temps will drop into the 60s. So, according to your own derived conclusions from internet searches, its too cold to go in without a wetsuit just like San Diego in the summer. But I'm here to tell you that for the majority of people that is false. Here's a picture of FL beaches during winter with the water in the 60s. How many wetsuits do you count? Take a look and then think about those assumptions. You can't believe everything you read online. The proof is in the doing and experiencing vs. trusting websites that can exaggerate, sometimes on purpose like those surfers. Why would they do that? They don't like crowds at their beaches. That and sarcasm.
Likewise, San Diego in the summer. Count all the wetsuits and shivering people. Maybe a few from Hawaii and Sicily, perhaps? haha
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 12-15-2023 at 12:10 AM..
Water temperature comfort levels are extremely relative to the individual and even air temps to some extent. A few examples to illustrate my point.
When I used to lap swim for exercise in the pool, I hated it when they cranked up the heat because the elderly ladies complained during their water aerobics. But they would make a big stink about how cold it was. So, all the lap swimmers would have to roast because of it. Now, step into a true lap pool at a college campus. Initially, you will be cold. Why? Because you need to start exercising to warm up.
When it comes to the ocean, I've logged more hours than most in one lifetime growing up at the beach. I always remember the fairest weather folks usually came from tropical locations like Hawaii. To them the water even in summer was cold. Likewise, when I traveled to Hawaii during winter, I saw some wear shorty wetsuits while many others didn't bother. Why? Because it wasn't cold to the rest of us. When you are actively swimming or paddling, you naturally warm up more than simply dipping a toe in.
Now, take your new home in FL. During winter months the ocean temps will drop into the 60s. So, according to your own derived conclusions from internet searches, its too cold to go in without a wetsuit just like San Diego in the summer. But I'm here to tell you that for the majority of people that is false. Here's a picture of FL beaches during winter with the water in the 60s. How many wetsuits do you count? Take a look and then think about those assumptions. You can't believe everything you read online. The proof is in the doing and experiencing vs. trusting websites that can exaggerate, sometimes on purpose like those surfers. Why would they do that? They don't like crowds at their beaches. That and sarcasm.
Likewise, San Diego in the summer. Count all the wetsuits and shivering people. Maybe a few from Hawaii and Sicily, perhaps? haha
Derek
Maybe you have days where the temp in the water creep up significantly in SD, it happens in Sicily too, the south coast is noticeably colder than the north coast but sometimes it can get noticeably warmer.
Maybe you have days where the temp in the water creep up significantly in SD, it happens in Sicily too, the south coast is noticeably colder than the north coast but sometimes it can get noticeably warmer.
It's not an occasional thing but rather the norm during summer. That is, it's warm enough to swim, surf and paddle for the vast majority. I literally went in the water 5+ days a week during summer months as a kid and then into young adulthood, just not as frequently. And there are hundreds of thousands doing the that same thing every year.
Let me ask you this. Have you visited the FL coast on a sunny day during the winter near your home down in Clearwater Beach, for example? If it's sunny and reasonably warm out in terms of air temps, there will be people swimming in the ocean just like in that photo I posted from Clearwater in the winter. That's when the water is in the 60s vs. 70s (your ideal for comfort level).
+1. I'm over it really I know it's not going to change. I think people that come here need to beware though, and understand that Bellingham has hit critical gentrification. The mail may not come before you start getting collections calls for the bills, it may take weeks to get your Benz serviced or repaired, housekeepers and yard maintenance are full, raising rates and looking to dump clients, and you may encounter your favorite restaurant is now closed, or with a long wait while half full for lack of staff. If I was rich(and I'm anything but lol), I'd want a place flush with people to serve me when I snapped my fingers, and that is not Bellingham anymore.
That's a problem. I know quite a few people whose WWU grads (or drop outs) decided to stay in Bham through their 20s and try to make a living. They work low paid service jobs, have lots of roommates and are struggling. Eventually they'll have to leave as their debt builds up.
They mostly work retail and restaurant jobs or odd jobs like babysitting. So they aren't filling the niche of skilled trades that Bham needs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayfair
That's a problem. I know quite a few people whose WWU grads (or drop outs) decided to stay in Bham...
They mostly work retail and restaurant jobs or odd jobs like babysitting. So they aren't filling the niche of skilled trades that Bham needs.
What is the shortage of Skilled trades employees in B'ham?
I'll send some your way.
One kid graduated from WWU and had (5) roommates who were all 'well' employed during college. Only one stayed (works for County in environmental science). but... after making their fortunes elsewhere (well before age 40), They all plan to buy second / FIRE homes near to Bellingham, and (3) have already done so. They meet frequently for sports related hobbies and to go on ski, beach, boat, mtn trips together.
One kid graduated from WWU and had (5) roommates who were all 'well' employed during college. Only one stayed (works for County in environmental science). but... after making their fortunes elsewhere (well before age 40), They all plan to buy second / FIRE homes near to Bellingham, and (3) have already done so. They meet frequently for sports related hobbies and to go on ski, beach, boat, mtn trips together.
The difference is the rent in relation to wages is higher now. Making it in Bham is hard for those starting out due to housing costs (and food). You wouldn't believe the rents.
The way this relates to Bham housing costs is that landlords can buy houses and rent them to college students (and post college hangers on) and have an endless supply of renters guaranteed due to the college.
So that's another source of the housing market not crashing in any way. As long as there's a college, and WWU keeps expanding without building more dorms, there will be a market for these rental houses.
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Thus... workers can't live in BHam, they must commute in from affordable places, or share accommodations.
A problem every remote ski / beach / resort town faces, in the entire world. Was a big problem when we were in Queenstown NZ. and Zermatt SU and nearby Whistler and Lake Louise. Even Sandpoint.
Desirable places are... desirable.
Money helps.
Many of us will never be able to swallow the increased housing costs.
Jackson Hole was one of my delivery stops in the 1970's. People (locals) were being forced out then. Very sad.
Thus... workers can't live in BHam, they must commute in from affordable places, or share accommodations.
A problem every remote ski / beach / resort town faces, in the entire world. Was a big problem when we were in Queenstown NZ. and Zermatt SU and nearby Whistler and Lake Louise. Even Sandpoint.
Desirable places are... desirable.
Money helps.
Many of us will never be able to swallow the increased housing costs.
Jackson Hole was one of my delivery stops in the 1970's. People (locals) were being forced out then. Very sad.
Plan for it.
This is indeed a worldwide socioeconomic problem which has existed for a long time. The Colorado towns of Aspen, Vail, Telluride etc.. are prime examples of this including Estes Park and the list goes on. They are loved to death to the point locals no longer can afford them. That's the sad reality of it. The same thing happened to my hometown of Hermosa Beach where the median home prices are now $2.6M and trending up! Ever think about the mortgage, taxes or insurance on a $2.6M home? If you have to think about it, forget about it! The same thing is true of our kids hometown of Monterey which is $1.3M. What do the locals get in return? Suck it up, buttercup! Welcome to America. This is capitalism at it's finest. You want freedoms? You got 'em! In fact, anyone with enough cash can become a new local overnight anywhere they so choose. So, as sad as that might be, there's really nothing new, special or unique about this societal dilemma.
By comparison, Bham's median home price is $675K. Now, is it as nice to live in as more expensive, desirable locations such Aspen, Monterey or San Diego? Maybe for some but likely not for the vast majority. Market demand determines value, bottom line. Paradise found is really paradise lost for many locals and their kids. So, you either look somewhere else 'relatively' more affordable in locations such as FL, TX, AZ, NV, etc... and the cycle continues. Or, you find ways to make more $$.
If none of those work, you can get very creative living in a higher cost area than you can really afford. Go off grid, explore tiny homes, live in boat, in an RV, yurt, mobile home, build your own home on a cheaper lot outside city limits, etc... Or drive in from a loooooooong way out where its less convenient for most to commute from.
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Just need to figure out how to afford where you want to stay.
Because 'the witch' CEO absconded with our retirement HC and pension just within grasp of retirement, we ended up buying (6) very inexpensive income properties in a no income tax state, just to cover our increasing CoL back home. Not plan A, not simple, but it was a solution that worked for us. Our family had already been displaced 3x by growth and high costs.
Your solution will be unique to your needs, but there will be a solution.
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