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Really we only have two theories - the theory of relativity and quantum physics - the second is not recognized and has stood for 27 years without anyone being able to prove it wrong which is the hologram theory.That theory says that nothing really exists that it is all a illusion and everything really exist as information on a two dimensional surface.Which would also make you wonder where that information is coming from opening up even more questions.
The "hologram theory" has its proponents and detractors -- there's some evidence in its favor but nothing conclusive. It is more proper in scientific terms to call it a hypothesis, although some argue that even that is too strong a word, since it isn't a fully testable (falsifiable) hypothesis. A hypothesis, if scientifically valid, goes through an extensive vetting and may eventually become a theory, which in the scientific sense of the word, is just about the opposite of "some idea I just extracted from my nether regions because I like the sound of it". Keep in mind that while scientific theories have been tuned around the edges at times, none has ever been invalidated.
If the hologram hypothesis became a theory (proven explanatory framework) then it would not conflict with, but rather would complement, the theories of general relativity, special relativity and quantum physics. At the very least, both would be true in their appropriate contexts and scopes.
I would say in science you have to be careful because you can come up with things that work great in thought experiments and on paper that cannot exist in reality.Infinity is one which really is a breakdown in math show me anything infinite in this reality. I agree everything has to be actually proven in reality in order for it to be true in science.Could infinity only exist in our minds or can it be proven to exist in reality.
An example on paper would be that I can take any object and divide it infinitely on paper but in reality that object only has so much mass / energy it is finite.
That's all a fair assessment and a reasonably accurate statement of the problem space.
Although I would say that when scientists speculate in search of a falsifiable hypothesis, they know they're doing it. Keep in mind that the media often fails (or maybe just neglects) to understand the distinction, as it's in search of provocative headlines. Popular media is rife with breathless news of "discoveries" that confuse association with proof, or represent too small a sample size or severe study limitations, and need a lot more work (and time and money) to get to a place where it's more than just an interesting fact.
What I said is actually a falsehood I said I could divide a object infinity on paper but that's not true I simple overlooked all the other information about the object that I needed and did not bring it into the equation.
If you actually did it you could just start with a proton and I think that eventually you would end up with one bit of information either a 1 or a 0.
Except that each proton is made of 3 quarks and we don't know if there are even smaller particles.
Then there is not just Penrose's holographic deduction, but the theory that we all live in a computer simulation.
My tendency is to think it doesn't matter what reality consists of, so much as that we are obliged to deal with it. If jumping off a skyscraper and meeting the ground is just a hologram or a computer program it isn't going to hurt any less, nor have a different result.
I would say in science you have to be careful because you can come up with things that work great in thought experiments and on paper that cannot exist in reality.
Theology too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul888
Infinity is one which really is a breakdown in math show me anything infinite in this reality. I agree everything has to be actually proven in reality in order for it to be true in science.Could infinity only exist in our minds or can it be proven to exist in reality.
Wetterich, Vilenkin, Rucker, Oppy are just a few scientists and philosophers who disagree with your view about infinity. I know of no scientist who does agree with it.
Existence itself may be infinite, otherwise what is outside existence? Something else that exists? But that is also existence.
One can also use Lincoln and Wasser for spontaneous creation from absolute nothing, because by definition, an absolute nothing has no rules to say how an absolute nothing should behave.
And again you argue against science without applying the same argument to your theological position. If infinity is not possible, then there are no infinite gods. And a god can not create from an absolute nothing because by definition, an absolute nothing means no gods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul888
An example on paper would be that I can take any object and divide it infinitely on paper but in reality that object only has so much mass / energy it is finite.
But can you divide that finite mass an infinite number of times? Calculus says it can.
That's all a fair assessment and a reasonably accurate statement of the problem space.
Although I would say that when scientists speculate in search of a falsifiable hypothesis, they know they're doing it. Keep in mind that the media often fails (or maybe just neglects) to understand the distinction, as it's in search of provocative headlines. Popular media is rife with breathless news of "discoveries" that confuse association with proof, or represent too small a sample size or severe study limitations, and need a lot more work (and time and money) to get to a place where it's more than just an interesting fact.
You have a strong grasp of the scientific method Mordant. Didn't you say you have no college degree? Well done.
You have a strong grasp of the scientific method Mordant. Didn't you say you have no college degree? Well done.
both of which are irrelevant to paths of religion and spirituality. in the same way a person's bank account, a person's hair color, and a person's pantry are irrelevant to paths of religion and spirituality.
I don't believe in the theory it would have to be prove to me I like playing the thought experiment and that theory can be really interesting when you start to think about it.Soome people don't like to do that but thats where it all starts.It doesn't do any harm if anything it opens your mind to possibilities that no one else imagines or even cares to imagine.The mind can also be a dangerous place it can imagine amazing thing in a way your mind sees yourself eternal.
I often think of myself as a character in all of this and try to help this person. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I unravel maladaptive coping as I know I have a lead on what is actually causing the suffering. I can heal it rather than just cope. I feel gratitude that the game allowed the work to pay off.
I don't know if I stated it here already, but the problem with science is we will never know the truth about reality through it. It is EXTREMELY limited. To ever think we will know, or hope to know the origins and workings of reality through science, is foolishness. Even when we look at the quantum world, the rules of quantum mechanics is all about probability. So scientists are looking for a way to marry quantum mechanics and general relativity, when quantum mechanics itself is not exact! And general relativity is limited, as it only goes as far as our observation. (which is limited)
Other than the limitations I mentioned, there is a more valid reason why we can never hope to know the truth of all reality through the scientific method. That is the truth of all reality, is connected to what we refer to as the spiritual world. I believe as scripture states, God upholds all creation by His power. So all creation is connected to the God we can't see. If you wish to break reality down, you must understand the spiritual world itself, which I imagine has many dimensions.
This is why we are taught if we consider ourselves to be wise in this age, let them become a fool so that they may become wise! It is by receiving God's wisdom, that we actually discover the truth of all reality. Of course after this age, we will be given the full picture of our true origins. God Himself is going to remake the universe, and we will see it first hand.
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You have a strong grasp of the scientific method Mordant. Didn't you say you have no college degree? Well done.
And general relativity is limited, as it only goes as far as our observation. (which is limited)
It is by receiving God's wisdom, that we actually discover the truth of all reality. Of course after this age, we will be given the full picture of our true origins. God Himself is going to remake the universe, and we will see it first hand.
