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The sources of all those matters were people, with distorted views of God perhaps, and hatred of others especially. People at fault; not some god or deity.
With the line of reasoning at the top, cars would be guilty of vehicular homicide rather than the people in use of them. I.e. targeting an indirect factor rather than the direct cause. There's plenty of horrific action by humans, with much of it in the absence of a god or deity. That's what ties atrocities together, not some external deity.
If people are careless and fall - hurting themself - do you blame gravity?
If we track with the "God is everything" and "everything is God" rationale, how are we to dismiss people or cause so simply like this? I always find this sort of argument problematical at best, because on the one hand it's hard to think about all these matters, including religion, outside the scope of what people make it. To blame or credit a god or deity, always seems a simple matter of perspective. I for one have a perspective there is no god or deity to credit or blame for anything. It's what people do that almost all of us credit or blame when it comes to all the "good, bad and ugly" we see people doing all around us. Inspired by any number of very powerful influences; politics, self-interest, envy, altruism, money and religion just to mention a few of the more profound.
Indeed; what a confusion of non-sequiturs we wade through here. Saying that various religions provide, on balance, cover / justification / encouragement for human mischief has nothing to do with transferring guilt for individual actions away from individuals. Nor does it change that individual decisions have to be made to be better persons and think more clearly and stop claiming that god approves of, or even commands, their bad decisions. Divine command theory is in fact a big driver of bad behavior, because our chosen gods always agree with us.
I once sat under a pastor who said that "bad religion is a hard taskmaster". But I think he underestimated the problem. The failed epistemology of religious faith, followed with full fidelity, disconnects people from observing and learning from cause and effect. He would have better said "bad religion is an even worse taskmaster than it already inherently is". It has since become my view that "good religion" is "lipstick on a pig", so that even its best followers ultimately do good in the world in spite of rather than because of it. Often by ignoring the worst aspects of the belief system, emphasizing the parts that happen to make sense, and improvising the rest. Something that a fundamentalist / literalist / inerrantist will have a really big struggle with.
Mordant, your criticism of religion is apt but the reason has been the irrational and misguided nonsense about inerrant and infallible recordings by primitive minds. My trek through the "spiritual fossil record" revealed a template of avatars to inspire our understanding. The interpretations should have evolved with our growing knowledge of the Reality we inhabit. It originally did but has stagnated at a very primitive level. The primary corruption is the misguided demand that we believe in the Holy Books as if they are God's infallible words instead of inspired attempts to understand God and Reality (the same IMO).
Well, that's likely from your perspective. If you aren't around enough from the "God groups" - to get a true sampling - then you'll probably just follow the news or see the worst of the worst. Just like that saying "The squeaky wheel gets the grease", we tend to perk up our attention to things that stand out, rather than the quieter components in the background.
I've had personal experience of over 40 years of positives that I wouldn't have had otherwise. I won't waste any time going into long detail. That's just not me. But the benefits have been unmistakable. I know it's in others too. It's not loud or showy, nor does it need to be. Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for religion, I'm advocating for spirituality and relationships. What I've found beneficial requires no group, no bible, no building, no fixed belief system, nothing to sign up to, nothing to defend, and nothing to promote. It's highly personal, liberating, and connected with the universe and all humanity. It's been 100% beneficial.
Mordant, your criticism of religion is apt but the reason has been the irrational and misguided nonsense about inerrant and infallible recordings by primitive minds. My trek through the "spiritual fossil record" revealed a template of avatars to inspire our understanding. The interpretations should have evolved with our growing knowledge of the Reality we inhabit. It originally did but has stagnated at a very primitive level. The primary corruption is the misguided demand that we believe in the Holy Books as if they are God's infallible words instead of inspired attempts to understand God and Reality (the same IMO.
Yes to the bolded and it is not the religious that always do that.
Why should whatever you are saying here have any effect on any individual with a sound mind and intellect? If you can read, if you know how to select the right texts, follow the teaching and have faith in it, follow the spiritual path that fills one with peace, awe, joy, and understanding, who is to stop anyone from following it? It does require effort, diligence, and pursuit. Whatever it is you did Mystic in your trek, anyone can do it. They may just use different words to describe it. It is our birthright.
To attribute any reason other than personal motivation to commit murder, rape, wage war and kill innocents, is to absolve the actor from responsibility. Nothing to do with what you call God. The Self always exists, is always aware, and always at peace.
It is the ego that is always in want and always in conflict with the world, makes itself miserable and inflicts misery on to the world.
Yes to the bolded and it is not the religious that always do that.
Why should whatever you are saying here have any effect on any individual with a sound mind and intellect? If you can read, if you know how to select the right texts, follow the teaching and have faith in it, follow the spiritual path that fills one with peace, awe, joy, and understanding, who is to stop anyone from following it? It does require effort, diligence, and pursuit. Whatever it is you did Mystic in your trek, anyone can do it. They may just use different words to describe it. It is our birthright. To attribute any reason other than personal motivation to commit murder, rape, wage war and kill innocents, is to absolve the actor from responsibility. Nothing to do with what you call God. The Self always exists, is always aware, and always at peace.
It is the ego that is always in want and always in conflict with the world, makes itself miserable and inflicts misery on to the world.
Yes to the bolded. Our ego is our ignorant Self (not our Real Self). The "abomination of desolation" refers to the "spiritual ignorance" conditioned by our isolation in a physical body (Temple). Our best efforts to reduce, minimize, or eliminate our spiritual ignorance tend to be inadequate (it is difficult) so we tend to simplify and fantasize using our imagination.
Organizations have responsibilities too ... more exactly the individuals that run the organization. Everything ultimately comes down to individuals. But individuals band together to form organizations and amplify their actions thereby. So both individuals and their organizations need to be accountable and accept responsibility for their contributions to both the good and bad in the world.
To say that organization X has systemic problems with, say, sexual predation or promotion of hateful narratives or whatever is not to absolve the individuals that run (or follow) the organization; rather it is to call the underlying individuals to accountability. Some actions simply find expression through the groups we are part of. Also some bad ideas promoted by organizations make it easier through various dynamics for the participating individuals to be drawn to unhealthy behaviors.
You cannot say that an organized religion consists of nothing but stated high ideals and promises. It has to be held to actually work out those ideals in practice, and to fulfill its promises or else modify them to be more realistic. Any organization, religious or not, both represents and influences its individual members for good or ill.
Some here want to present all religions as nothing but a set of fully realized perfect ideals for which 100% of failure to live up to them are the occasional odd aberration that has nothing whatsoever to do with systemic defects in the organizational influence on members and on society. 'Tain't so.
Yes to the bolded. Our ego is our ignorant Self (not our Real Self). The "abomination of desolation" refers to the "spiritual ignorance" conditioned by our isolation in a physical body (Temple). Our best efforts to reduce, minimize, or eliminate our spiritual ignorance tend to be inadequate (it is difficult) so we tend to simplify and fantasize using our imagination.
I like the way you have stated it. To know the difference , and distinction, between the ignorance of the Ego and the awareness of pure Self, requires knowledge. This knowledge, by definition, needs to come from external means, and those are religious texts. These texts are available in all religions. The texts that reveal the nature of the pure Self often get hidden among other interests - methods and means of worship, conduct, community structure etc. Some religions like Buddhism and Hinduism and others have culled the essential writings that lead to spiritual knowledge, from the rest of "religious structure and behaviour" aspects. It requires effort and help to understand these texts, they don't yield their meanings easily. They need to be contemplated upon with a quiet mind and intellect.
To attribute any reason other than personal motivation to commit murder, rape, wage war and kill innocents, is to absolve the actor from responsibility.
No, it simply points to other factors involved, but the person is also responsible for their role. Do you really think it is wise to deflect from your first silly argument by making a second?
“… “from what does the mind arise? How do I know I am aware? These are all variations of the same sacred question, and it is in the form of this question that the divergent disciplines of science and religion are united. The desire for knowledge and the love of God are realized to be the same quest. “
~~Rupert Spira, Advaita Vedantist
“… “from what does the mind arise? How do I know I am aware? These are all variations of the same sacred question, and it is in the form of this question that the divergent disciplines of science and religion are united. The desire for knowledge and the love of God are realized to be the same quest. “
~~Rupert Spira, Advaita Vedantist
More judgements of an unreliable mind?
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