Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
People are notoriously moveable, blown about by every wind of religious doctrine.
Some people choose to be close to God, but most people do not.
Joseph led his people to Eqypt, where they lived for 400 years. During that 400 years, many of the Hebrews prayed to be delivered from Eqypt [as they continued to worship Eqyptian deities].
A Hebrew who was living in Eqypt, worshipping Egyptian deities and observing all the Eqyptian festivals to Ra, Geb, Nut, Shu, Osiris, Isis, Set, Nephthys, and Horus. Yet expecting Elohim to rescue?
That would be like today, somebody who prays to Daddy god, Mommy god, uncle ghosty god, and Baby Infant god, who expects Elohim to rescue.
I really like the book of Job. I do not know what it is that you feel should be questioned on the basis of Job's life.
Job was consumed by a fear, that fear won out and it destroyed his life. Then we have 38 chapters of his horrible friends interrogating him, and finally, the whirlwind speaks and tells Job how to be released from his fear.
I'm pretty sure in modern parlance we'd say that Job suffered from PTSD brought about by the arbitrary cruelty of God.
Didn't say it was ALL about us. Talking about things that actually happened isn't implying anything other than that they happened.
Part of the point of any ideology is to make sense of lived experience, and to cope effectively with it.
God unambiguously promising X and then not providing X is unhelpful in this regard.
Maybe for example my wife or son suffering horribly and then dying and the endurance of the resulting sorrow by myself and others who cared was somehow an expression of god's love for all of us, but one would have to go through ridiculous contortions to believe that. Since all involved were kind, loving, generous souls, one would also have to go through contortions to believe they had it coming. Praying on behalf of suffering persons to be delivered can hardly be characterized as selfish, even though there are benefits both to the victim and potentially to the one making the request.
So tap dance all you want, toss all the implied gaslighting accusations of selfishness that you want. What happened still happened, whether you or god care or not.
Because God has never promised that bad things wouldn't happen, nor has he promised that he'd give us everything our little hearts desire, such as a new job, or a new car.
So...why would one think that the standard for prayers "working" is that we can treat him like a genie in a bottle?
Your question might be better put to the millions of people who pray to God and fervently believe in the power of prayer.
Didn't say it was ALL about us. Talking about things that actually happened isn't implying anything other than that they happened.
Part of the point of any ideology is to make sense of lived experience, and to cope effectively with it.
God unambiguously promising X and then not providing X is unhelpful in this regard.
Maybe for example my wife or son suffering horribly and then dying and the endurance of the resulting sorrow by myself and others who cared was somehow an expression of god's love for all of us, but one would have to go through ridiculous contortions to believe that. Since all involved were kind, loving, generous souls, one would also have to go through contortions to believe they had it coming. Praying on behalf of suffering persons to be delivered can hardly be characterized as selfish, even though there are benefits both to the victim and potentially to the one making the request.
So tap dance all you want, toss all the implied gaslighting accusations of selfishness that you want. What happened still happened, whether you or god care or not.
Do you see what you're saying? "part of the point of any ideology..."
Have you considered that maybe philosophers just have it wrong? That Christianity is not just some made up ideology? That God is not some genie up above that just wants to bless and love everyone that ever lived? Fact is, the Bible does tell us that everyone has sinned and fallen short of God's standard -- that includes even those that you consider to be kind, loving, and generous. Why do you believe that you or anyone else is good, according to God's standards?
Not only that, but have you read the New Testament? Were the apostles exempt from persecution, pain and suffering? Did Christians live their best life now? Have they historically lead their best lives? No. Pain and suffering is a part of this world.
It's the old 'some of us are special' perspective that is so disgusting.
You can be a bit harsh sometimes phet...
Though I think we are of like mind when it comes to much of this sort of thing, I don't see people who believe in God or who share these sorts of notions or perspectives as "so disgusting." Or even that they think they are special. I think they are just misguided after having been taught that God is there to look after them. Believers can't go through so many of life's traumas that so many of us are forced to endure, God-fearing or otherwise, and not somehow develop a rationale that works whether prayers are answered or not. When prayers are answered. God is great and amen. When prayers are not answered, "God works in mysterious ways."
Somewhat confounding. Yes. Something like the "heads I win and tails you lose" coin toss. Hard to reconcile on many levels, but disgusting? You aren't going to win any converts like that, but then again there are no converts to be had in this forum, so I suppose of no matter either way. Just saying...
Last edited by LearnMe; 12-31-2023 at 09:05 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
