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You misrepresent or misunderstand Christianity. Christians believe that everyone is “flawed” or sinful, by nature and by choice, and therefore guilty before our God and creator. God, in His mercy, became one of us and paid the penalty for our sins. We access that redemption through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
No one here is misrepresenting or misunderstanding, that would be you. We're all flawed, so what? That doesn't mean we're bad or "as filthy rags". I don't appreciate the bible clumping ALL people into a filthy rag category. I am not a piece of dung or something to be scraped off some god's shoe. That is just ridiculous. If a single being created us and we're in his "image", then wouldn't it be flawed also?
That's right, I've got just as much biblical knowledge as you do. Probably more. I may not know everything, but I know enough to debate you about this. And you are SO wrong. What you are saying is we are guilty "as sin" when we are born, and that never changes, no matter how hard a person tries.
It just can't be done without believing that god/Jesus died for those "sins" so we could be "saved". Saved from what exactly? Oh right, hell. Because if a person does not believe exactly like you do, then off to hell they go. Yeah, I want to buy right back into that nonsense.
I wish conservative Christians would stop back and look into the face of reality. Life is our reality at the moment, and you are not living it. You have been conditioned, brainwashed, fooled and indoctrinated. I don't know if you are a lifelong Christian but it's ok to live your life like a normal person would. You do not have the answers. Tell me, what can you PROVE as far as what happens when we die? I said PROVE, not proselytize.
You condemn everyone and are all smug and safe in you security blanket of belief. How is that "christian"? What if I'm going to heaven and you're going to hell? You can't disprove it. So, you can neither prove or disprove what you believe. Mmm-hmm, all I have to do is join the cult and I'm in!
Because you can not answer the questions, or want to evade them?
Ignoring that you too are generalizing, many religious people can think for themselves, and are free thinkers and open minded. The problem is that they usually do not apply this to their religion, or are dishonest
Open minded religious people would want to know about the views of atheists. First you imply religious people are "free thinkers" or "open minded", then you argue they should not be. You should choose which wedding you want to dance at.
Again, ignoring that you are generalizing, many religious people do embrace freedom. It is those who do not who are the problem. And not just for atheists, for the religious as well. How many times do we need to explain this, or are you not open minded to different views?
We have also explained this. You are also at odds with different religious beliefs. Just because most people are religious does not mean they are correct, just as all people see optical illusions. And considering the many different religious beliefs, many of them can not be correct. The fact there are many contradictory religious beliefs is evidence people invent religions, not that they are true. My guess is you are too close minded to understand what we have previously explained.
List them. Do not simply change the group as if that is a valid criticism, list what is wrong with our world view.
How do you know they are militant? Have they posted pictures of their uniforms and weapons? Because if you are calling them militant because they are posting on the internet, so are you, which means you too are militant. Once again, we have explained this point to you. But I guess you have a close mind to rational alternatives.
Ironic hypocrisy with your low tolerance of atheists, and your fixation with us. You have also misfiled, many of us are tolerant about religious beliefs. The problems are 1), when the religious try and force their beliefs on others (including other religious believers), and 2), it is normal for rational people to argue against opposing views, that is how we have progressed in society. But for some reason, too many close minded religious people think this should not apply to religion. They have a low tolerance for having their religious beliefs questioned, and one must ask why?
Thank you for an excellent, well-thought out, point-by-point response post.
You misrepresent or misunderstand Christianity. Christians believe that everyone is “flawed” or sinful, by nature and by choice, and therefore guilty before our God and creator. God, in His mercy, became one of us and paid the penalty for our sins. We access that redemption through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
Let's see...he's all-powerful, and he created us (supposedly in his own image), but was required to pay a penalty. Who or what was requiring him to pay a penalty?
We do the religious Christians in this country believe that people who aren't religious are bad and or flawed? Some Christians want the free thinkers and atheists to follow a religious lifestyle in that being an lgbt person is considered immoral and against God but theyre atheists so why should they care about your religious beliefs? It's almost as if they wish to impose their religious values and lifestyles onto everyone else. In Christianity being lgbt is a sin mothers working could be considered a sin as in the new testament encourages women to stay in the home etc. Why should I accept these kinds of traditional values if I don't even believe in your Christian version of a higher power/God. According to religion and Christianity their version of god is a divine dictator who if you aren't doing what he says or believe the right things you will be punished in eternity in hell. Why not embrace freedom. Christian values is fundamentally at odds with my instinctual nature and worldview. I'm too much of a free open minded spirit to be for rigid gender roles and traditionalism.
I have seen that.
In the last church that we attended, the pastor had the attitude that if we made every sin illegal, then every law-abiding citizen would obviously accept Christ. I argued that such is not logical.
Of course many of those 'sins' were things not listed in the Bible as 'sin', but the church's own private idea of things they felt should be sins.
We saw what having a Theocracy did for a thousand years. I contend that any church denomination if allowed to rule an empire over dozens of kingdoms and nations would eventually perpetrate just as many evils as the previous Theocracy did.
Luke 12
:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Let's see...he's all-powerful, and he created us (supposedly in his own image), but was required to pay a penalty. Who or what was requiring him to pay a penalty?
Do you people even think?
Assuming God was going to create mankind regardless, how should He have created us? Flawless? What say you?
Assuming God was going to create mankind regardless, how should He have created us? Flawless? What say you?
No...not regardless. I made a statement and now you want to change the discussion without actually responding to what I posted.
But, I'll respond to you even though you typically want to change the rules of engagement from an unprincipled position.
When I was a teacher...and later a school administrator. I tried to 'create' things to be the best they could possibly be. Of course, I wasn't an all-powerful god.
I would expect a real god to do the very best he could possibly do. Which I guess wasn't really very good. In fact, I'd give him an F.
No...not regardless. I made a statement and now you want to change the discussion without actually responding to what I posted.
But, I'll respond to you even though you typically want to change the rules of engagement from an unprincipled position.
When I was a teacher...and later a school administrator. I tried to 'create' things to be the best they could possibly be. Of course, I wasn't an all-powerful god.
I would expect a real god to do the very best he could possibly do. Which I guess wasn't really very good. In fact, I'd give him an F.
Can you be specific about what God should have done better in creating mankind?
Can you be specific about what God should have done better in creating mankind?
I'll give you one example -- even though YOU continue to not respond appropriately to my posts.
We all have to die. Why so frequently does it have to be a painful, sometimes agonizing death. Pick your poison, Horn -- cancer, stroke, murder, starvation, torture, leprosy, hiv...I could go on. REally, couldn't an all-powerful and ever-loving god do a little better. If he exists, he's a perverted sadist.
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