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Old 07-05-2012, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,331,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Why does the creator need a creator? Perhaps the creator is the ultimate.
Perhaps matter is the ultimate. Why is it impossible for christians to accept the big bang? I know the old argument of something doesn't come from nothing. Then they give this explanation for god. If god can be a constant, then perhaps something is the constant. Maybe the universe has always existed and the big bang is just the result of a universal recycling system. Billions and billions of years from now maybe all of existence will collapse in on itself and the energy built up results in a big bang
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:37 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,188,271 times
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Raison, most Christians DO believe in the Big Bang.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
I don't think you have studied many of the creation myths of other religions if you think that genesis is the *most* accurate.

Hindu myths, while they are certainly inaccurate in many ways, actually parallel quantum universes.

In Buddhism, creation reoccurs repeatedly in cycles which is similar to the cyclic universe theory. Buddhism accepts evolution as well.

Revisions that would have to be made to genesis to make it fit with science:

Michael Shermer » Genesis Revisited: A Scientific Creation Story
I have actually read some of the many Hindu/Vedic creation stories. The time scale seems to be a little more accurate (many billions of years rather than days), but what many people don't realize is that the word for "day" in Genesis is "yeom" if I remember correctly, which can also be translated as "an indefinite period of time", even a long time. Christians who believe the world is 6000 years old do it based on genealogies, and since biblical genealogies often contradict, it's usually very poorly educated Christians who believe that.

But as I said, the account of the order of events in Genesis is NOT perfect, simply better than the other creation myths I've read. If you read the Vedic accounts, most of them seem very improbable. There's a lot of mention of an earlier high-tech "godly" civilization at war with a "demonic" civilization, which is kinda interesting, but unsubstantiated by data. As for Buddhist writings, most of them are anonymous - the Buddha didn't leave behind all that much himself except for the Eightfold Noble Path.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:53 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,574,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Raison, most Christians DO believe in the Big Bang..
Technically correct, but 40% believe the earth is only 6000 - 100000 years old. 40 flipping percent, 4 out of every 10

In 2012, 40% are so ignorant of the evidence that the earth is 4+ Billion year old. 40% It boggles the mind that the ignorance of long dead goat herders could have such an irrational hold on people that are supposed to be able to think and reason.

40% of Americans Believe in Strict Young Earth Creationism
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,454 posts, read 12,834,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Perhaps matter is the ultimate. Why is it impossible for christians to accept the big bang? I know the old argument of something doesn't come from nothing. Then they give this explanation for god. If god can be a constant, then perhaps something is the constant. Maybe the universe has always existed and the big bang is just the result of a universal recycling system. Billions and billions of years from now maybe all of existence will collapse in on itself and the energy built up results in a big bang
Perhaps.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:46 PM
 
Location: The Land of Oz.
267 posts, read 216,986 times
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What sort of ego or sheer ignorance is required to believe that the indescribable majesty of the universe was created for us?
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:36 AM
 
434 posts, read 343,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Those computers couldn't do anything without first being created.
Neither could the computer builders have done anything without first being born. Let's just cut to the chase, though: any variation of the Watchmaker Fallacy is a bad metaphor, and inapplicable.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:37 AM
 
434 posts, read 343,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Why does the creator need a creator? Perhaps the creator is the ultimate.
There's nothing in the properties of the universe to suggest an uncaused cause. So it's just a made up concept for an irrational God concept. Basically the idea is just wishful thinking via a made-up superpower.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:34 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 16,004,367 times
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I wonder what atheists would think if they got to heaven and discovered God was an atheist?
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:41 AM
 
Location: The Land of Oz.
267 posts, read 216,986 times
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Yeah, I don't believe I exist either........................oh dear.
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:34 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 16,004,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Na'vi View Post
Yeah, I don't believe I exist either........................oh dear.
We humans speak outside ourselves when we state, There is a God or There is no God.

Could God speak outside of Himself and say "There is no God outside of Me?"
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