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Old 07-04-2012, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,327,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The creator is greater than the created.
Yet the creator supposedly created his creations to in the image of the creator. But what created the creator?
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:39 AM
 
434 posts, read 342,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
You might check out cosmos magazine here:

Life, the universe and everything | COSMOS magazine which deals with where the carbon comes from.

You can also check their "About us" page.

Even though they may have an evolutionist agenda, I think they still have some good things to offer.
Ah, now I understand what you were referring to.
Nonetheless, from that source, do you now understand what I meant about it taking more than the first solar lifetime to create carbon?

However, I also frown at your 'evolutionist agenda' comment. Tch.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:40 AM
 
434 posts, read 342,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The creator is greater than the created.
There are computers now that can out-think the humans who made them. This little koan does not hold.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
8,734 posts, read 13,824,559 times
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:39 AM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,929,208 times
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LOL. I like that.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:44 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,977,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Yet the creator supposedly created his creations to in the image of the creator. But what created the creator?
That's actually a really good question.

The Bible doesn't really say God is eternal in the past. At least not in a properly translated Bible.

It says "From olam to olam, Thou art God."

In the Concordant Literal "From eon to eon Thou art God." No eon is eternal. They all end.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:54 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,977,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
I'm not sure, but I think Eusebius's idea of "resonance" has to do with the unsolved mystery of physical constants. There are many physical constants such as Planck's, which appear to be arbitrary, but without being those certain precise values there would have been a universe without elements higher than helium. What I mean is that if you were to plug in different values for the constants and do the equations, you would find that such a universe wouldn't form heavier elements such as carbon and higher. (hard to explain).

Then there is the fact that entropy (disorder) increases as the universe expands. Extrapolating back in time, we can say that the beginning of the Universe was highly ordered, with all the information needed for its current state in a tiny space that could probably fit into one's hand - perhaps the size of an egg or a seed. It seems improbable that all of that could have appeared suddenly from nothing.

Concerning Genesis - while I'm no fan of the Bible for finding truths, the creation myth in Gen 1 appears to be closer to modern knowledge than any other creation myth. It's not the world sitting on a turtle or being spun by Spiderwoman. One can see the approximate, basic order of events in it: something like a Big Bang, a world created followed by an ocean and land, and the order of evolution only slightly garbled. Plants, then fishes, birds, animals, then humans. Not perfect, but not so very far from reality either.
Excellent post except for that evolution bit, but, hey, I still liked what you wrote.
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
Concerning Genesis - while I'm no fan of the Bible for finding truths, the creation myth in Gen 1 appears to be closer to modern knowledge than any other creation myth. It's not the world sitting on a turtle or being spun by Spiderwoman. One can see the approximate, basic order of events in it: something like a Big Bang, a world created followed by an ocean and land, and the order of evolution only slightly garbled. Plants, then fishes, birds, animals, then humans. Not perfect, but not so very far from reality either.
I don't think you have studied many of the creation myths of other religions if you think that genesis is the *most* accurate.

Hindu myths, while they are certainly inaccurate in many ways, actually parallel quantum universes.

In Buddhism, creation reoccurs repeatedly in cycles which is similar to the cyclic universe theory. Buddhism accepts evolution as well.

Revisions that would have to be made to genesis to make it fit with science:

Michael Shermer » Genesis Revisited: A Scientific Creation Story
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,798,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Yet the creator supposedly created his creations to in the image of the creator. But what created the creator?
Why does the creator need a creator? Perhaps the creator is the ultimate.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,442 posts, read 12,798,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
There are computers now that can out-think the humans who made them. This little koan does not hold.
Those computers couldn't do anything without first being created.
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