Austin's Future Skyline (Houston, Waco, Victoria: townhomes, neighborhoods, buy)

[migol84]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

As long as you hold by the idea that unrestricted growth and thoughtless building is "progress", then, yes.

Or, we could redefine what constitutes progress.

What's progress to you? Everyone else has given much better options than anything you've proposed which means continually building outward.

[TexasHorseLady]

I like OpenD's idea of multiple centers, with some mid-rise in the way of office and housing as well as single family homes, so that everyone can live close to work, play, and the necessities of life. Having work centers spread out around town doesn't mean that every single employee is going to live right next to work, but, then, having all those high rises downtown, if you really believe that most of the employment in Austin is downtown, means that MOST people will have to commute to work because, believe it or not, most Austinites don't want to live downtown even if you do. You're right that Tarrytown and Travis Heights and other high dollar neighborhoods are likely not going to want high rises built right smack dab in the middle of their neighborhoods (who would, except someone who's all about everybody living on top of each other?), but there is likely some compromise and, for that matter, most people don't live in those neighborhoods anyway so that's not really what we're talking about, is it?

I really wish there were NO high-rise looming over the river destroying the wonderful feel of peaceful nature in the middle of the city that used to be there (if you think we've got that now with the downtownb equivalent of the suburban two-story house peering into your backyard while you swim in your pool, you have no idea what it's like), and that we'd done something about that, but that ship has sailed.

[ScoPro]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

As long as you hold by the idea that unrestricted growth and thoughtless building is "progress", then, yes.

Or, we could redefine what constitutes progress.

Austin has redefined a lot of things since I've been here.

But one thing will never change (barring a major catastrophic event) - the population will continue to increase in the foreseeable future.

[migol84]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

I like OpenD's idea of multiple centers, with some mid-rise in the way of office and housing as well as single family homes, so that everyone can live close to work, play, and the necessities of life. Having work centers spread out around town doesn't mean that every single employee is going to live right next to work, but, then, having all those high rises downtown, if you really believe that most of the employment in Austin is downtown, means that MOST people will have to commute to work because, believe it or not, most Austinites don't want to live downtown even if you do. You're right that Tarrytown and Travis Heights and other high dollar neighborhoods are likely not going to want high rises built right smack dab in the middle of their neighborhoods (who would, except someone who's all about everybody living on top of each other?), but there is likely some compromise and, for that matter, most people don't live in those neighborhoods anyway so that's not really what we're talking about, is it?

Of course nobody would want a skyscraper in a middle of a neighbor like Tarrytown or Travis Heights. I'm saying that what OpenD is suggesting happen around the city is something that these NIMBY's are virtually against. You think Travis Heights would allow for a "mid-rise in the way of office"? Even still will these neighborhoods with people who think very much like you, mind you, would shoot these projects down.

All the skyscrapers you're so adamantly against are being built in downtown where you most likely don't even live. And I think BevoLJ has already made mention of this that that is why the city and these developers are all investing into downtown because the rest of the neighborhoods in the city just don't want progress, they don't want anything happening to their neighborhoods, hence NIMBYs (not in my backyard).

Plus, keep in mind that Austin is not at all this urban-centric city.... so I'm just baffled that Austin has received such backlash even with probably having only about a 5% area of urban aesthetics. You still have your bungalows and you're still going to have them for a pretty good time if you truly truly like them.

But until then, if you want progress and if you even remotely want what OpenD suggests you're still gonna have a hard time because Austin neighborhoods just don't want anything happening at all. They might as well move to San Antonio. San Antonio takes pride in that mindset.

And also, even with the Imagine Austin proposals that were passed wouldn't even make Austin even half of what San Francisco is in terms of urbanity. There will still be your much preferred good old sprawl for a better chunk of Austin.

At the very least, Austin is doing something to keep it from spreading further out like Dallas or Houston and into the region's more natural surroundings. Heck, Austin's ship sailed back in the 50s and 60s when the car became the driving force of the city.

I really wish there were NO high-rise looming over the river destroying the wonderful feel of peaceful nature in the middle of the city that used to be there (if you think we've got that now with the downtownb equivalent of the suburban two-story house peering into your backyard while you swim in your pool, you have no idea what it's like), and that we'd done something about that, but that ship has sailed.

So what you are essentially asking for is a dead non-vibrant downtown the way it was back before the 60s. That's virtually impossible. Unless you really want to be non-progressive. But Lady Bird Johnson and the City has done the best they can, at least I think so, to preserve the natural settings with a developing and vibrant downtown. You are in a very small minority here who thinks Austin hasn't done a good job preserving the city's natural settings.

I think you have very fond memories of times back when there were actual houses much like a small town and the river was just a place everyone went to to meet. Times change and nobody likes it, that's for sure, but nobody also wants a completely dead downtown with the way you are describing. Different types of people move in, with diversity and different appeal. The city is growing to nearly a million in a metro of nearly 2 million. It's IMPOSSIBLE to have a downtown similar to the settings of Huckleberry Finn, with the mayor serving as the sheriff and the entire town gathered around town lake for a Sunday School gathering of baptism and prayer, only except with a population of over 800k.

That's not progress ma'am, hate to say it.

[TexasHorseLady]

Actually, if you'll read, regarding downtown I said "that ship has sailed", meaning in any vision of a vibrant, living future for Austin that doesn't replicate Any City, USA, I'm writing off downtown - it's already lost to the "'progress' at any cost" crowd who can't see beyond an old-fashioned definition of progress. (You didn't think this was something new and different did you, like my 9 year old did when he told me, in 1981, that the reason I didn't like a particular rock song on the radio was because 'we have electric guitars now'?)

No, a truly creative vision of Austin is going to have to, it appears, just write off downtown as a lost cause as much as the suburbs are, maybe more so, because the vision of multiple centers can actually blossom around the city including the suburbs, whereas downtown will be stuck in its "downtown is the center of the universe and bigger is better and that's progress" mentality. So it will be just a "vibrant" in its way (which makes a lot of people NEVER want to go downtown at all because, gack!) as you want it to be and any really innovative progress will have to take place in the rest of the city where the vast majority of the population actually lives.

[atxcio]

Originally Posted by ScoPro

Austin has redefined a lot of things since I've been here.

But one thing will never change (barring a major catastrophic event) - the population will continue to increase in the foreseeable future.

That's definitely true. And I think it's nice that so many people want to live downtown, even if they don't work there... at least they have a reverse-commute in most cases. One of the things I like about Austin's new-look downtown is that most of the towers are residential, rather than commercial (like Dallas or Houston). Should make for a much more attractive downtown, with more shops and services.

Who knows, with all the new residents DT, maybe someday Congress Avenue will return to it's former glory. You know, tons of pedestrians, retail on every block, and even rail running along it. Like this:

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

I really wish there were NO high-rise looming over the river destroying the wonderful feel of peaceful nature in the middle of the city that used to be there (if you think we've got that now with the downtownb equivalent of the suburban two-story house peering into your backyard while you swim in your pool, you have no idea what it's like), and that we'd done something about that, but that ship has sailed.

Lady - you're concept of what makes a city a city is baffling to say the least. Dense cities do lots of great things - among them:
They preserve rural areas as rural by maximizing density in inner urban areas.
They create beautiful spaces by framing nature.

Think Central Park in New York would look better "NO high-rise looming over" it?

http://www.hauteliving.com/wp-conten...central-pk.jpg
Central Park

Central Park's drama is there precisely because it is beautifully framed by tall architecturally interesting buildings.

Same for Vancouver. Anyone every complain that Vancouver's sky scraper's ruined the waterfront?
http://www.pearllimousinevancouver.c...=1322532549895
http://sharpdigitalimages.com/wp-con...r_Trip-286.jpg

Low rise low impact use is the worst of all solutions - it spreads out soulless concrete over miles and miles and miles in every direction and requires us to get off the streets and sidewalks and into our cars to get to the destinations we want to enjoy (all overcrowded with full surface parking lots full of cars baking in the hot Texas sun. You think that you aren't advocating exactly that - but you are. That's exactly what happens as a result of backwards thinking.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

So it will be just a "vibrant" in its way (which makes a lot of people NEVER want to go downtown at all because, gack!) as you want it to be and any really innovative progress will have to take place in the rest of the city where the vast majority of the population actually lives.

Nobody goes there anymore - it's too crowded.
- Yogi Berra

[TexasHorseLady]

Komeht, I think you'd be very happy in New York City. Have you been stuck in Austin all your life?

As for the nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded, that's actually pretty accurate. The few times I've had to go downtown (I never shop at Whole Foods downtown or make my used-to-be weekly trip to Book People any longer or go to the restaurants and bars down there that I used to frequent), it's been an experience of crowded Any City, USA, and I get out as fast as I can, because there's no appeal. Even going to events on Lady Bird Lake has become a chore rather than a pleasure. Throwing up a lot more housing high rises downtown is only going to make that worse.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Komeht, I think you'd be very happy in New York City. Have you been stuck in Austin all your life?

As for the nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded, that's actually pretty accurate. The few times I've had to go downtown (I never shop at Whole Foods downtown or make my used-to-be weekly trip to Book People any longer or go to the restaurants and bars down there that I used to frequent), it's been an experience of crowded Any City, USA, and I get out as fast as I can, because there's no appeal. Even going to events on Lady Bird Lake has become a chore rather than a pleasure. Throwing up a lot more housing high rises downtown is only going to make that worse.

Might I suggest Killeen Texas. Very rarely a traffic jam, lots of places to park your horse trailer and rarely a building higher than a couple of flights of stairs. - Paradise.