Is this excessive absenteeism? (claim, money, business, hired)
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Always documented in an email, and always giving my manager a heads up. In addition, "I've made up the time already." It's a matter of people worrying that you are getting something they aren't. I should also mention this wasn't my manager who spoke to me about this it was my manager's manager. There is a woman upstairs who has nothing to do and she presents all this data to him on a weekly basis. So and so left 15 minutes early, so and so left an hour early for a dentist appointment.
Have you spoke to your actual manager about what she presented? What was his/her thoughts on what she presented?
1. Did you receive a handbook? - Yes, they did their job, or, no they did not do their job. Is it available online, and if so, is it indexed to help new hires locate anything, or is it a jumbled set of postings?
2. Do they have an absentee policy or is it up to leadership discretion? Do they consider the midpoint of allowable time off in a year as a reason for coaching to head off a problem? Is there a family concern which Family Medical Leave may help ?
3. Are there any other indications of age discrimination - DOCUMENT it! Even if it seems vaguely innocuous, "No, we are doing this instead now, can't you adapt any more?"
4. You have to decide if you are stuck there, can make a change without drawing attention to it until you have a new position, or are worth more than being treated the way you suspect you have been. If the latter, start prepping yourself for a time without employment or for, as another poster has stated, working two jobs with one being "job seeker". As a job seeker, you set your hours to do this , whether full or part-time.
It is worth the effort to find a position where you can work effectively, efficiently and in an engaged manner with both the aims of the employer and your growth needs.
1. Didn't receive an employee handbook until 8/10/18. My first day here was April, 2017.
2. No absentee policy. Nobody knows who it is up to or what is acceptable. I don't need FMLA it's 4 sick days and 3.9 hours of personal time (dentist, doctor, heating guy, plumber).
3. There isn't age discrimination here the average age of employees is around 50 years old.
4. It's funny you should say that. I was telling a friend that I think I'm stuck here. The only way I could possibly go on an interview is after 5. I only have 2 vacation days left and I obviously can't call in sick or take personal time anymore.
Have you spoke to your actual manager about what she presented? What was his/her thoughts on what she presented?
My manager shook his head and said he doesn't have a problem with anything--but obviously it's not up to him. He told me he doesn't know why me and another guy report to him because he has no say in anything.
Last Friday I was talked to about excessive absenteeism. So far this year I've taken 3.9 hours of personal time and 4 sick days (yes someone upstairs evidently documents all your time even you leave 15 minutes early). Then I was asked if I ever received an employee handbook (they couldn't find a form we are supposed to sign which is why they asked me). I said no I haven't (I've been here 1.5 years). I'm having such a hard time with this because I was always treated like a professional throughout my entire career (I'm 58). I never treated my 25 direct reports this way either. It was always a give and take.
My questions to you are 1) Do you think this is excessive absenteeism? 2) If there is no written policy about personal time or sick time is there anything an employee can do? I perused the entire employee manual and there is nothing. 3) How would you handle this if you thought this was absurd and knew you were stuck there? I'm seriously considering asking to become hourly so I don't have to deal with this. (I have already been trying to find a new job but have been turned down twice in the past year). Looking forward to your thoughts.
OP, the answer to this is simple; how many sick days are you allotted per year? I imagine it's more than 4. 4 sick days in 7 months doesn't sound excessive to me. I've never understood this concern with "absenteeism", when an employee calls in sick a few times. That's what sick leave is for! People get colds or flu. They may have low back issues. It's only "excessive absenteeism" if they exceed the number of sick days allowed.
I don't understand the bit about 3.9 hours of personal time off, though. have you been leaving early or arriving late? Or taking an extended lunch once in a while? I can see how those things would be a concern. They're paying you for your time, OP. You're not supposed to leave 15 minutes early, unless you have a good reason, like you need to go to a doctor appointment. Then the 15 mins. would be chalked up to your sick leave.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 08-16-2018 at 09:19 AM..
Two of the sick days were the flu (January). The other two were not on a Monday or a Friday. One was on a Tuesday the other was on a Thursday. Would you really call leaving early 5 times for a total of 3.9 hours since January a repeated offense?
The upstairs person (her title is Controller/HR) logs everything on a spreadsheet based on emails or looking out her window. Because I am responsible for covering the phones I have to let her direct report know when I leave. Others here not so much. They just give a verbal to their manager and tell them they need to leave early and nothing is said to them. Essentially they don't bring attention to their leaving early or have an email trail. By the way the person that had this job before me was bullied so much by this woman upstairs that she quit after being here 19 years. That's how bad it was for her. Her plan was to retire from here because of the pension.
Yes, unless those times were cleared with your boss, and deducted from your vacation time or sick leave (if relevant). That's how it's done, OP. If you've been in the workforce for so long, you should know that. When I worked in a state job, if we needed to leave early, we'd have to arrive early that day, to put in our regular number of hours, in order to be able to leave early. Maybe you could do something like that?
Is this the first time in your entire career that you've been required to answer for your absences? I'm just curious. Why has this come up now?
Yes, unless those times were cleared with your boss, and deducted from your vacation time or sick leave (if relevant). That's how it's done, OP. If you've been in the workforce for so long, you should know that. When I worked in a state job, if we needed to leave early, we'd have to arrive early that day, to put in our regular number of hours, in order to be able to leave early. Maybe you could do something like that?
Is this the first time in your entire career that you've been required to answer for your absences? I'm just curious. Why has this come up now?
This is the first time in my career I've been treated this way, yes. I've always worked for companies that didn't care about the trivial absences I am referring to in this thread. These companies knew I would stay late or work weekends and do what it took to get the job done, so when it came to needing to leave early or some sick days each year they didn't care. Who did they care about? The people that would abuse it. The ones who always needed to leave an hour early every Friday or called in sick two or three times a month.
Last edited by milesfive; 08-16-2018 at 09:48 AM..
I personally don't think so, people get sick. I get 5 sick days, 1 "personal holiday", and 14 days vacation. I have used all my sick days because I was sick, had medical tests, dental appointments, etc. I hate that I've used them all because I usually don't.
Today I need to leave at 4, so I came in an hour early. That's pretty common here, it helps us from wasting sick time. As long as I work roughly 40 hours and my job is done, boss doesn't care. The previous HR Manager would get annoyed, but that was it. She couldn't actually do anything, so they just let her talk.
Unless you're out of sick time/pto/whatever, I don't see the issue... Keep looking and good luck
What do you mean "made up the time already"? You mean you leave 15 minutes early and then the next day come in 15 minutes early to make up the time? All of my jobs after college have been salary and I had a certain amount of paid leave. As long as I properly informed my supervisor and used my paid leave I never had a problem. Even if you don't have any paid leave and you've taken 4 sick days this year I wouldn't call that excessive. There may have been one instance where I "made up the time" instead of taking paid leave. Maybe the question of "making up the time" is what management is questioning.
Made up the time already meaning "I need to leave 30 minutes early today I've made up the time". That's how they are here even if you are salaried. So the day I left 30 minutes early I had stayed 30 minutes late the day before. Mind you I just sat here and cruised the internet because I had nothing to do in those 30 minutes, but that is beside the point.
I personally don't think so, people get sick. I get 5 sick days, 1 "personal holiday", and 14 days vacation. I have used all my sick days because I was sick, had medical tests, dental appointments, etc. I hate that I've used them all because I usually don't.
Today I need to leave at 4, so I came in an hour early. That's pretty common here, it helps us from wasting sick time. As long as I work roughly 40 hours and my job is done, boss doesn't care. The previous HR Manager would get annoyed, but that was it. She couldn't actually do anything, so they just let her talk.
Unless you're out of sick time/pto/whatever, I don't see the issue... Keep looking and good luck
A sales environment is hit or miss. When I worked in sales, I came and went as I pleased because if you’re sitting in the office too much, you’re not making money. When I worked inside sales, then I needed to be in the office at all hours because the best time to catch potential business was either early in the morning or later in the evening. I got used to coming and going as I needed because how I worked produced results.
When I first left sales, I didn’t think leaving a little early or coming in later was a big deal as a salary employee. I had former employers years prior that were okay with leaving early on a Friday or taking the occasional longer lunch to run to the bank. The main concern was to get the job done. I didn’t understand that for this particular employer it was a problem and whatever history I had in the work world at other companies didn’t matter to them.
When companies are like this, it either stems from legitimate job requirements, overbearing management policies, or someone/a group abused the goodwill and suddenly people were leaving early for any and every reason (kids, the dog, airport run, family in town, cable install, doctor’s appointment, etc). The problem with leaving early is that people do it spur of the moment, like suddenly these things occurred, when in most cases, they haven’t. Abusers wait until the last minute to say anything because they know if they inform their manager ahead of time, there’s opportunity for the manager to say they can’t leave early that coming day for whatever reason. Or the abuser is hoping to avoid having to use PTO/vacation time/personal time/sick time because they want to save it for when they are really taking off.
Enough of this from enough people and it becomes a problem. Company policies no longer matter and everyone is leaving early and then coming in late as they “need”.
I’m not a fan of it personally because I’m a grown adult, but it’s the abusers that make it difficult for everyone else. You’re going to have to change your approach to leaving early. Understand what is expected and work within the system or start searching to leave. Oh, being at a company for over a year and claiming ignorance of policies is not an excuse. You can’t assume what one company does carries over to a different company. It’s easy to inquire and get the info. This is where it sounds like you expect to be able to do as you like regardless. They don’t care that you managed 25 people before somewhere else. It’s irrelevant here.
As far as the sick days go, I don’t believe 4 days by this time of year is excessive, but when coupled with leaving early, it’s very likely there is a case being built. You should take a temperature on where your performance stands with management.
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