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Well jayhawks, glad you feel so passionately about your Irish heritage Condon is certainly a family name that is very prominent in Cork and Mcarthy, meaning "Son's of Carthach" is very much an Irish name and though Mac's and Mc's (both have the same meaning) can just as easily be associated with Scotland McArthy is a name that most definitely has its roots in Ireland. It is a name that has a great history in both Ireland and America and there are many distinguished associations with the Mcarthy name from as diveres a range of historically prominent figures as famous Irish nationalists, (recently, not presently) the Irish foot-ball team's manager and an American politician synonomous with the term 'Mcarthyism' to name but few.
O' in front of a name like O'Donnell signifies 'grandson of' whilst Mc siginifies 'son of' though over the years both terms have come to be recognised as 'decendant of' which reflects I suppose just how long these names have evolved and flourished throughout the world.
Of all three countries I'd say Wales has probably the closest bond with England. That's not to say sporting rivalry is not intense when England play Wales but when you consider the royal family's close ties with Wales, hence, 'the Prince of Wales' (who is second only to the Queen as a heir to the throne) and the fact that the England cricket team is called the England & Wales cricket team you can see that there are historical links Wales has to England which Scotland and Ireland would just not be hapy to share. It would be wrong to assume that these rivalries were overly intensive away from certain sporting occasions and political controversies though. There may be rivalry between these countries, but there are common bonds and similarities too between Ireland and the UK too. Wales suffers the most though from being consumed by England, hence the fact that not many people even recognise the fact that England & Wales share a cricket team. It is commonly referred to as simply England and of course, England aren't overly enthusiastic in clarifying this misconseption.
All countries have their own distinct identity but Scotland has a strong association with Ireland that is felt by much of its population. There will be many Scots from protestant communities who would also not want to be associated with ireland and that is why it is important to understand that identity can vary very much within Scotland itself. Wales, conversely is alot more united in this respect. But whilst many in Scotland will either raise the Irish or union jack depending on their ancestry (especially in Glasgow) even the protestants of Glasgow would not ever dream of raising the cross of St.George like they do in protestant sections of Belfast. But this is because Sccotland's national pride is so engrained that it transcends barriers and unites the people of Scotland.
All nations of UK are intensely proud people and the Irish most definitely are. For me, Ireland is the proudest, most distinguished, unique and beautiful country of all the other neighbouring countries. The Emerald Isle is the jewel in the whole world's crown that glitters eternally through stormy oceans and high seas. Ireland has the best literature, music, Gaelic sports and scenery. But then I am slightly biased.
Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 06-26-2010 at 03:16 AM..
Oh, apologies for mispelling the 'McCarthy' family name and leaving out the C 3 times , by the way. Didn't mean to. Above is the correct spelliing, as you have correctly spelled it in your post jayhawks.
Thanks so much, FearandWhiskey I appreciate your posts. I'll get back to this thread when I get a chance. I just wanted to jump on here real quick and say mispelling the name was NO big deal. I didn't even notice, but when you brought it up it did make me wonder if I had it spelled right!
The problem lies with the Irish Americans acting more Irish than the Irish.
The boasting and proclamations are what gets on everyone's nerves.
Only the Americans go on and on about their Irish heritage. People living in Ireland (including Irish, French, Poles, Nigerians, Chinese, Argentinians, Australians, etc) don't care or feel they need to announce it to the world that they have Irish blood. It's not that important there like Irish Americans want to think it is.
I don't really think you've got the understanding of the situation in hand enough.
To a lot of the world "Americans are Americans," as though we share a culture. We don't. We are the cast off stepchildren of every other culture in the world, we are adventurers from every other culture trying to have it better than our parents did, we are people often just trying to get by. But as a nation, we also have a rough history of those that came here early trying to be in control of those that cam here later, either by chance, choice, or force. In America, often Irish immigration history is tied to having been VERY poorly treated as immigrants by cultures that were immigrants before them. Italian immigrants have the same issues, for example. And with a history of slaveholding whites in our past, some of the outspoken Irish/Italian/whatever-American culture is in part a way of both saying "our ancestors werent involved in that" and a bit of "we had it rough in our past, too, and we're surviving and thriving as a community" Added in is the typical human concept of "similarity" in community (the old Us vs Them mentality that self segregates due to common interest or ancestry), and it's a lot more complex, and less sinister/ignorant than you make it out to be.
...............................
As to the OP, I recently got back from a trip to Scotland to see the ancestral stomping grounds in the highlands (Clan MacRae, from Kintail), and I didn't find the Scots there to be introverted and bookish. My wife and I met a lot of fun, outgoing people, and were always treated well, whether we were in a pub in Aberfeldy or Lewiston, a shopping center in Perth, or while walking Edinburgh.
I did notice, behind some gentle ribbing about America, a connection there, as well. Part of it seems to stem from how many Scots and Irish emigrated to America over the years, so there are family connections, and some of it seems to come from a sense of American being a British colony that broke free. Hahaha!
I don't really think you've got the understanding of the situation in hand enough.
To a lot of the world "Americans are Americans," as though we share a culture. We don't. We are the cast off stepchildren of every other culture in the world, we are adventurers from every other culture trying to have it better than our parents did, we are people often just trying to get by. But as a nation, we also have a rough history of those that came here early trying to be in control of those that cam here later, either by chance, choice, or force. In America, often Irish immigration history is tied to having been VERY poorly treated as immigrants by cultures that were immigrants before them. Italian immigrants have the same issues, for example. And with a history of slaveholding whites in our past, some of the outspoken Irish/Italian/whatever-American culture is in part a way of both saying "our ancestors werent involved in that" and a bit of "we had it rough in our past, too, and we're surviving and thriving as a community" Added in is the typical human concept of "similarity" in community (the old Us vs Them mentality that self segregates due to common interest or ancestry), and it's a lot more complex, and less sinister/ignorant than you make it out to be.
...............................
As to the OP, I recently got back from a trip to Scotland to see the ancestral stomping grounds in the highlands (Clan MacRae, from Kintail), and I didn't find the Scots there to be introverted and bookish. My wife and I met a lot of fun, outgoing people, and were always treated well, whether we were in a pub in Aberfeldy or Lewiston, a shopping center in Perth, or while walking Edinburgh.
I did notice, behind some gentle ribbing about America, a connection there, as well. Part of it seems to stem from how many Scots and Irish emigrated to America over the years, so there are family connections, and some of it seems to come from a sense of American being a British colony that broke free. Hahaha!
Oh, I get it...
You might get it if you weren't actually from America or lived anywhere where tourists flock every summer.
What's you fail to realize is that just because you're an Irish American, Scottish American or Polish American, that you will not be viewed by people born in those countries as Irish or Scottish or Polish...but only American. You won't be a European no matter how much you want to associate yourself as such.
It's not to say that it doesn't hold meaning for you or for millions of other people around the world. It's uniquely American to go around talking about clans/surnames and immigration stories since they hold some historical significance personally for you. The tourist shops thrive on this stuff.
I lived in Ireland and have spent a good bit of time in a few European countries (including Scotland ((exceptionally beautiful country,btw)) and the people from these countries are rightfully proud indeed, but not in a boastful kind of way.
Even my own Irish husband feels more at ease with Europeans (particularly the Scottish and even the English and French) more so than he does with Americans though he's been here for 15yrs now. Why? Because Americans are American- we think like Americans, talk about American topics, laugh at American jokes, eat American food, wear what's fashionable in America, divide into belief systems, religions and political parties, and are educated in America, watch American tv etc. The American workplace is even very different than elsewhere.
We do have a culture all our own despite you not wanting it to be true or real. Funny that you would deny there being any American culture- when all people outside of the country can spot it immediately.
Anyway, I can hear the feathers getting ruffled about my observations as usual. I'm sorry to hurt feelings and to break any notions of some misty old country that your great-great grandparent was from that you feel you're from too.
The stereotyping that some Americans do regarding the culture of any British Isles is always predictable. The fact that you described your recent vacation like this: "ancestral stomping ground of the clan McRae's of Kintail" says it all.... (Oh, I'm only "gently ribbing" i.e. taking the ****/slagging the Yank..because of some historical significance of our mistreated ancestors).
Who's leeching off who? Ireland? Er, don't think so. And as for London funding the other nations, it's not as if it's a completely English centre of commerce now, is it? How many Irish businesses are there based in London now? How many American businesses? London is a global village and is made up of businessmen and women from all over the world. This notion that London is somehow made up of businessmen in bovver boots, Union Jack braces and Fred Perry t-shirts is laughable. I haven't seen an Englishman in days round my neck of the woods, it's all becoming an East European melting pot now to go with the Turks, the Jamaicans, the Indians and any nationality you care to mention apart from the English. Maybe it's England that should stop leeching off succesful foreign businessmen because they're creating no industry or innovation themselves. Some of the biggest contributors to the London economy are Scots too so what're you talking about? Haven't you seen Dragons Den?
Besides, the Scots have their own thriving economies and could easily operate independently from England's unsustainably bust economy. Everyone's a leech in England now anyway, haven't you heard, EVERYONE'S paying for the sins of the square mile whether they had a hand in the biggest heist of all time or not. Actually, those that pilfered the most are the only ones to be protected in this false economy.
And wasn't most of the success of Britpop based around Oasis, a band who're second generation Irish and proud of it? Most of your famous music is made of bands that despise your kind of insular and imperialist English outlook to the world. WHat so called Britpop band are you speaking on behalf? John Lennon wanted to see England get out of Ireland too and Paul McCartney wrote a song entitled 'Give Ireland back To The Irish' which the overbearing authoritarians of the British establishment banned. Your culture is made up of a Royal family that is German and a population that has run to the shires. London belongs to the global finance sector now, like it or not, you better get used to the reality.
And don't knock the Welsh, they're the only true Brits, according to your favourite true blue Tory paper the Telegraph. Genes show Welsh are the true Britons - Telegraph Ooohh, the green, green grass of home. Gotta love the Welsh.
Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 07-09-2010 at 01:59 AM..
Someone has to keep you South Coast denizens in pebbled beaches, aquariums, gay villages, magic potions and er,.......vegetarian shoes.
Pass the bong dude.
According to this travel guide,...
'Brighton is famous for its ethical fashion and vegetarian shoes. Neon Collective is an online vegan boutique basedhere.'
Way to go peacing out and living in such a liberal, free spirited hippy commune of a town. Rock on my funk soul brother. Brighton (England - Wikitravel (http://wikitravel.org/en/Brighton_(England - broken link))
Not one to start yelling and shouting But these topics i hate .
whats the difference between all people from the British Isles......Nothing.
For Centuries and More Centuries .the people from the British Isles have migrated into each others countries.
Scots, have migrated into England ,Wales, and Ireland .
Irish, have migrated into Scotland ,Wales and England.
Welsh, have migrated into England, Ireland and Scotland.
English, have migrated into Ireland, Wales and Scotland.
I was born in England, my grandmother was a Scot my grandfather was Irish. my dads side of the family was English and Welsh.
You only have to open a phone book in every country in the British Isles and see Scottish surnames ,Welsh surnames, Irish surnames and English surnames.
Nobody is 100% saxon, and nobody is 100% celt.
I couldn't have put it better myself, this subject always brings out the prejudice in people.
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Condon is certainly a family name that is very prominent in Cork and Mcarthy, meaning "Son's of Carthach" is very much an Irish name and though Mac's and Mc's (both have the same meaning) can just as easily be associated with Scotland McArthy is a name that most definitely has its roots in Ireland. It is a name that has a great history in both Ireland and America and there are many distinguished associations with the Mcarthy name from as diveres a range of historically prominent figures as famous Irish nationalists, (recently, not presently) the Irish foot-ball team's manager and an American politician synonomous with the term 'Mcarthyism' to name but few. 
, by the way. Didn't mean to. Above is the correct spelliing, as you have correctly spelled it in your post jayhawks.
Ireland? Er, don't think so.
And as for London funding the other nations, it's not as if it's a completely English centre of commerce now, is it? How many Irish businesses are there based in London now? How many American businesses? London is a global village and is made up of businessmen and women from all over the world. This notion that London is somehow made up of businessmen in bovver boots, Union Jack braces and Fred Perry t-shirts is laughable
Most of your famous music is made of bands that despise your kind of insular and imperialist English outlook to the world. WHat so called Britpop band are you speaking on behalf? John Lennon wanted to see England get out of Ireland too and Paul McCartney wrote a song entitled 'Give Ireland back To The Irish' which the overbearing authoritarians of the British establishment banned. Your culture is made up of a Royal family that is German and a population that has run to the shires. London belongs to the global finance sector now, like it or not, you better get used to the reality.
vegetarian shoes.
.