Are Texas Born Blacks And Hispanics Least Likely To Have the Stereotypical Texan Accent ? (Houston: neighborhoods, restaurants)

[Cathy4017]

From the Wikipedia article:

Shared features

These grammatical features are characteristic of both older Southern American English and newer Southern American English.

• Use of done as a redundant modal verb between the subject and verb in past simple sentences.

I done told you before.

• Use of done (instead of did) as the past simple form of do, and similar uses of the past participle in place of the past simple, such as seen replacing saw as past simple form of see.

I only done what you done told me. I seen her first.

• Use of other non-standard preterites, Such as drownded as the past tense of drown, knowed as past tense of know, choosed as the past tense of choose, degradated as the past tense of degrade.

I knowed you for a fool soon as I seen you.

• Use of was in place of were, or other words regularizing the past tense of be to was. You was sittin' on that chair.

All of the above is just plain BAD English! So I disagree with the concept of "shared features." We did not talk like that at home (not even my 80-something parents!), though I did know some (much older folks) who used those old forms.

[catman]

Cathy4017: Yeah, but they sound good when Festus says them in old Gunsmoke episodes.

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by catman

Cathy4017: Yeah, but they sound good when Festus says them in old Gunsmoke episodes.

Uh huh!!

[DejaBlue]

I've noticed this as well because I know I personally don't have any sort of southern accent whatever. Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, there's just nothing southern about the way I speak.

I once had a lady on a ship tell me I sound Northern Californian. Whatever that means. But she said I sounded really neutral.

I've always been curious about Northeastern accents because I know a few people up north and for the most part unless you're of some kind of Anglo-decent you're not going to sound Bostonian as in the Kennedyesqe Boiston, Joysey, NY ish accent people associate.

I'm sure some have it but it's a real rare thing to come across.

[Chalie Brown]

One thing I noticed not too long ago, if you've ever heard the singers Beyonce and Monica interviewed before, they sound very very similar. Almost exactly alike. Maybe it's mostly females that sound more alike across the south. Dudes are too busy trying to sound like the rappers from the area.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Pontificator

My current favorite Texas word: Jeet?

LMAO. Good one, Pontificator! But to answer the question, yeah, I did...had some fried catfish!

But seriously, on the general topic, my own experience (plus some studies on the subject) is that, yes, black Texans (and for the purpose of this thread, I am referring to African-Americans whose family has been here for at least a couple of generations) do not have that "stereotypical" Texas accent (which is the one most often heard in rural west Texas)...that strong "twang" quality which was brought by anglo settlers from the Upper South (Tennessee, Kentucky, and north Alabama in particular) which formed the bulk of that region of the state.

On the contrary, most of the black slaves/settlers came from the Deep/Lower South and, combined with the Jim Crow segregation and such, gave it a unique quality (as Cathy and a few others have noted)...to the point that (and I know some out there might call this a "racist" statement) that, over a telephone, one can usually tell if the native speaker is black or white just by that said quality.

At the same time however, the actual idiom used is often almost identical. For instance, the wide-spread use of "y'all" is the classic example. Texas/Southern whites and blacks -- when meeting outside the region -- can usually readily pick up on the other person being "from down home" for that reason alone.

On a related tangent, the only thing I have ever really noticed (and posts on the board in the past confirm this) in the realm of idiom/slang being truly different, is that -- unlike most native white Texans/Southerners -- blacks tend to use the term "soda" as opposed to "coke" as the generic term for a soft-drink. It might be interesting to see the survey map below done in terms of black/white...which -- in a larger realm -- was the duality most influencing original Texas history and culture and, in lots of ways, still does.

http://popvssoda.com:2998/countystats/total-county.html

So far as the hispanic influence goes, I would agree with what some have said, in that it is the least likely to be influenced by much Southern American English patterns, whether accent or idiom...

[Chalie Brown]

I think the reason many non-black minorities are least likely to have regional accents is because most of them are "recent" immigrants who arrived in America on their own accord and are thus more in touch with their own native cultures. Blacks on the other hand were brought to this country against their will, were literally cut away from their original heritage, and were largely influenced by whites' ways.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Chalie Brown

I think the reason many non-black minorities are least likely to have regional accents is because most of them are "recent" immigrants who arrived in America on their own accord and are thus more in touch with their own native cultures. Blacks on the other hand were brought to this country against their will, were literally cut away from their original heritage, and were largely influenced by whites' ways.

Those are some good points, but I think it important to mention that at least in some realms, Southern whites were equally influenced by aspects of black culture. I am sure there are many more, but the two that most come to mind are traditional/country cooking (what many northerners call "soul", in a way which often seems to associate it exclusively with blacks). The other is early rock and roll music and its blues influence, which was almost exclusively a Southern thing originally (i.e. Elvis Presely, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, etc).

[Chalie Brown]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Those are some good points, but I think it important to mention that at least in some realms, Southern whites were equally influenced by aspects of black culture. I am sure there are many more, but the two that most come to mind are traditional/country cooking (what many northerners call "soul", in a way which often seems to associate it exclusively with blacks). The other is early rock and roll music and its blues influence, which was almost exclusively a Southern thing originally (i.e. Elvis Presely, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, etc).

True. Blacks did influence these things, including southern cooking. Nowadays, soul food has taken on a life of its own in the African American community.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Chalie Brown

True. Blacks did influence these things, including southern cooking. Nowadays, soul food has taken on a life of its own in the African American community.

I know this is probably getting off topic, but I'd like to hear more explanation and detail about this aspect, as the general topic of black/white fusion -- and regional translation -- as concerns "soul/southern" cooking has been discussed before on some threads.

Back in the 60's, was when that expression "soul food" first gained some popularity in the American vernacular. With most of the media and TV concerns being in the NE and California, it became associated with blacks in much of the national mindset outside of the South from the "sit-coms" of that era. And usually it was presented in a way which was intended to ridicule stereotypes.

That is to say there was the "Archie Bunker" type who just took for granted all blacks liked "soul food", and he would be scripted to make a fool of himself when most of the black characters on the episode said they hated fried chicken and watermelon...or some such.

The thing was, the way it was applied often confused many of us Texas/South whites because WE had eaten this great crusine described as "soul" all our lives! Why was it something to ridicule or use as a didactic theme? What was the big deal about liking BBQ, chicken-fried steak, cornbread, greens, and fried okra, and such? That was good eating and it was something shared extensively by both Southern blacks and whites and had a strong historical component in terms of origins.

My general observation is that many from outside the Southern United States tend to use the term "soul food" in a way which associates it almost exclusively with blacks. The thing is though, they define it so broadly as to, again, include items listed above that many white Southerners grew up on as well.

On the other hand, most native white Texans/Southerners just call it "southern or country cooking"; limiting the use of "soul food" to those few items which really ARE more associated with the Southern African American community ("chitlins" are the thing that most comes to mind). Whereas blacks use "soul food" to include all of the above but, unlike many northern whites, understand that -- at least in the South -- whites too are very fond of most of it as well! Hope all that makes sense! LOL

Anyway, again, I would be interested in hearing more about the "life of its own" characteristic you brought up!