Why is Houston Better Than Dallas? (Fort Worth, Arlington: crime, credit, school)

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

I grew up in Nacogdoches. Sweet tea was very rare and made only at a few friends' homes, never available in restaurants that I found.

As for the Fort Worth thing, I understood you to say it and Houston are both Texan in vibe because both are located in Texas. You made a similar, but more interesting statement about Atlanta and Houston, saying both were essentially equally "Southern". I'm really interested in hearing more about this, because I have never heard the cities characterized this way before.

I don't really think of Houston as a "Southern" city, though I recognize its Southern roots and influences. Atlanta, for me, is a different story. I'm curious about your observations.

I wasn't saying Fort Worth and Houston were similar in vibe. I was saying that the former was more stereotypically Texan, but they are both still Texas. Atlanta is more stereotypically southern than Houston, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's more southern. It's just southern in a different way.

How do you define "southern"? As I tell everyone else, whenever this discussion comes up: list the defining characteristics of the ENTIRE South that are absent from Houston.

[dalparadise]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

I wasn't saying Fort Worth and Houston were similar in vibe. I was saying that the former was more stereotypically Texan, but they are both still Texas. Atlanta is more stereotypically southern than Houston, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's more southern. It's just southern in a different way.

How do you define "southern"? As I tell everyone else, whenever this discussion comes up: list the defining characteristics of the ENTIRE South that are absent from Houston.

Well, I think I understand what you are saying. Your point about more stereotypically versus more Southern is taken, though we may just be splitting hairs.

It's difficult to define. For instance, if I'm in Charlotte, New Orleans or Atlanta, I know I'm in a Southern city. The architecture, mannerisms of the people, and really the culture all seem to be indicators. Houston, as a rule, doesn't identify with its Confederate past like Southern cities do. In terms of popular culture, it tends to look more to the Southwest for its influences, though I realize this is my own personal observation. There also seem to be many more Houstonians who were born outside Texas than you will find Atlantans born outside Georgia. Furthermore, Atlanta residents tend to embrace being "from the South" more in my experience, whereas a person from Houston will likely identify as "Texan" or "Houstonian". Most of these observations are anecdotal and tied to Houston's and Texas' explosive growth rates over about 50 years, I know. But, Atlanta has gone through similar booms as well, yet has seemed to retain more of a regional identity tied to the South. Perhaps that is due to its lack of an intrastate rival like Houston has.

It is an interesting discussion...to me, anyway.

[Nairobi]

In what way does Houston "look to the southwest" for its influences? How does Louisiana embrace its Confederate past in a way that Texas doesn't?

This is all news to me.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

Well, I think I understand what you are saying. Your point about more stereotypically versus more Southern is taken, though we may just be splitting hairs.

It's difficult to define. For instance, if I'm in Charlotte, New Orleans or Atlanta, I know I'm in a Southern city. The architecture, mannerisms of the people, and really the culture all seem to be indicators. Houston, as a rule, doesn't identify with its Confederate past like Southern cities do. In terms of popular culture, it tends to look more to the Southwest for its influences, though I realize this is my own personal observation. There also seem to be many more Houstonians who were born outside Texas than you will find Atlantans born outside Georgia. Furthermore, Atlanta residents tend to embrace being "from the South" more in my experience, whereas a person from Houston will likely identify as "Texan" or "Houstonian". Most of these observations are anecdotal and tied to Houston's and Texas' explosive growth rates over about 50 years, I know. But, Atlanta has gone through similar booms as well, yet has seemed to retain more of a regional identity tied to the South. Perhaps that is due to its lack of an intrastate rival like Houston has.

It is an interesting discussion...to me, anyway.

I can tell you right now Houston is closer to New Orleans culturally than Atlanta is. The problem is this view that the south is cultural monolithic when it's not. Houston is cultural Gulf... Atlanta is cultural Piedmont. Houston has this wild zoning thing that can take away it's historic vibe don't be thrown off by that. Houston is call the Bayou City which a Bayou is nothing associated with the southwest I instantly think of the Gulf. One thing I found interesting was Houston's historic victorians are generally creole style victorians this is common in the Gulf region. Galveston for instance. Atlanta Victorians are generally different

Houston.

http://0.tqn.com/d/houston/1/0/Y/2/-...mes-Tour-1.jpg


http://activerain.com/image_store/up...2295609943.jpg


http://0.tqn.com/d/houston/1/0/e/2/-...mes-Tour-8.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/...6a3b089b11.jpg


Galveston

http://www.therealgalveston.com/Pics...nd-Empire1.jpg


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5264/5...ccc59380da.jpg


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4029/4...f722102659.jpg


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5264/5...ccc59380da.jpg

[dalparadise]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

I can tell you right now Houston is closer to New Orleans culturally than Atlanta is. The problem is this view that the south is cultural monolithic when it's not. Houston is cultural Gulf... Atlanta is cultural Piedmont. Houston has this wild zoning thing that can take away it's historic vibe don't be thrown off by that. Houston is call the Bayou City which a Bayou is nothing associated with the southwest I instantly think of the Gulf. One thing I found interesting was Houston's historic victorians are generally creole style victorians this is common in the Gulf region. Galveston for instance. Atlanta Victorians are generally different

Houston.

http://0.tqn.com/d/houston/1/0/Y/2/-...mes-Tour-1.jpg


http://activerain.com/image_store/up...2295609943.jpg


http://0.tqn.com/d/houston/1/0/e/2/-...mes-Tour-8.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/...6a3b089b11.jpg


Galveston

http://www.therealgalveston.com/Pics...nd-Empire1.jpg


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5264/5...ccc59380da.jpg


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4029/4...f722102659.jpg


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5264/5...ccc59380da.jpg

Good points. What about the past 50-60 years, though? Houston really seems to have departed from its roots more than other "Southern" cities.

[dalparadise]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

In what way does Houston "look to the southwest" for its influences? How does Louisiana embrace its Confederate past in a way that Texas doesn't?

This is all news to me.

I think in city planning, or lack thereof and the influences of Mexican and Southwestern cuisine and art. I think Houston has more progressive attitudes toward racial integration than many places in the Deep South, too. I will agree with you that comparing Houston to rural Louisiana is unfair, since rural Southeast Texas is very similar in mindset.

You don't seem very interested in contributing much of value to this conversation and I am reading a bit of attitude in your posts toward me. I'm guessing its hangover from our previous discussion, which deteriorated. That's too bad. I was hoping we could exchange some interesting ideas about this topic. You make some points about Houston I hadn't considered in nearly 20 years of living there.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

I think in city planning, or lack thereof and the influences of Mexican and Southwestern cuisine and art. I think Houston has more progressive attitudes toward racial integration than many places in the Deep South, too. I will agree with you that comparing Houston to rural Louisiana is unfair, since rural Southeast Texas is very similar in mindset.

You don't seem very interested in contributing much of value to this conversation and I am reading a bit of attitude in your posts toward me. I'm guessing its hangover from our previous discussion, which deteriorated. That's too bad. I was hoping we could exchange some interesting ideas about this topic. You make some points about Houston I hadn't considered in nearly 20 years of living there.

I can assure that I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

When you say "Southwest" it's clear you're talking about the Mexican and cowboy influences, but Texas, as a mostly southern state, has its own unique relationship with Mexico, seperate from that of the true Southwest states of New Mexico and Arizona. Let's break that down:

Over the past 50 years, yes Hispanics have become a major part of the culture here, but it doesn't surpass the importance and influence of the history that southern blacks have in Houston. Up until a few decades ago, African Americans were the largest minority group in this city, and it had been that way for most of this city's history. On the northeast, northwest, and south sides of town, you still have large swaths of predominantly black neighborhoods that are practically culturally the same as Memphis or Baton Rouge. Many folks in these neighborhoods have drawls so thick that you can barely understand them. Also, it's important to point out that a lot of Mexicans are influenced by the already standing southern culture here. All the time I hear Mexicans with southern accents.

The real cowboys of Houston are more closely tied to the "zydeco cowboys" of South Louisiana, which, in themselves, are remarkably different than what you find further west. True, the cowboy culture isn't widespread through the south (outside of Florida), but it is a staple of the culture of the South Central US. It would be incorrect for someone to suggest that it is "un-southern" in essence.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

I can tell you right now Houston is closer to New Orleans culturally than Atlanta is. The problem is this view that the south is cultural monolithic when it's not. Houston is cultural Gulf... Atlanta is cultural Piedmont. Houston has this wild zoning thing that can take away it's historic vibe don't be thrown off by that. Houston is call the Bayou City which a Bayou is nothing associated with the southwest I instantly think of the Gulf. One thing I found interesting was Houston's historic victorians are generally creole style victorians this is common in the Gulf region. Galveston for instance. Atlanta Victorians are generally different

Houston.

http://0.tqn.com/d/houston/1/0/Y/2/-...mes-Tour-1.jpg


http://activerain.com/image_store/up...2295609943.jpg


http://0.tqn.com/d/houston/1/0/e/2/-...mes-Tour-8.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/...6a3b089b11.jpg


Galveston

http://www.therealgalveston.com/Pics...nd-Empire1.jpg


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5264/5...ccc59380da.jpg


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4029/4...f722102659.jpg


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5264/5...ccc59380da.jpg

Great points, chiatldal.

Really, one only has to look at some of Houston's nicknames to decide if it's a southern city or not: "Bayou" City..."Magnolia" City. C'mon, now.

[polo89]

Originally Posted by dalparadise

No, they are not the worst in the country, but they are quite limited for cities their size and they owe their shortcomings to low-density sprawl.

They're not limited at all. Limited in What exactly? If it's amenities, then you're incorrect there. Both Houston and Dallas have everything anyone could need OR want.

[Fillmont]

OP, where exactly did you settle in Dallas?