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First, how was my post hypocritical? Be specific. (I'm afraid you have me confused with someone else.)
Hypocrites call out some on a certain thing while ignoring the same thing thing when stated by others.
ATXCIO mentioned the suburban nature of DFW and HOuston and you ignored it but called me out on it when I pointed out Austin is the same way. I am not confusing you with anyone else, you were being very hypocritical.
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Second, specifically list these "dense, lively" urban centers outside of downtown in, for simplicity's sake, just Dallas.
no, not if the only thing you are going to do is make a stupid comparison to NY. I am comparing Dallas to Austin, and pretty much outside of Austin's core is less lively than outside of Dallas's core.
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Third, define what you mean by "densely populated."
Dallas County is twice as dense as Travis county. In Fact Harris County is twice as large as Travis county and still turns out to be twice as dense as Travis county. The fact remains that Travis county density drops off much more rapidly outside of the main city's core than happens in Dallas County and even Harris County.
Pure hypocrisy to ignore a comment calling DFW just a ginormous southern burb and attacking a correction showing your area is worse. You go from city to boonies much quicker in Austin than DFW.
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Finally, respond to this statement: what difference does it make if there are some "dense" clusters away from the core, when all of Texas's cities are sprawling, auto-centric, and generally very low density?
I have numerous times. pick any of the responses in this very post.
Dallas County -2,692/sq mi
Travis County -1,036/sq mi (and it gets worse further out while Dallas picks up in pockets)
However, it seems there were some cool areas that I didn't get to see: Bishop, Deep Ellum, the Oak hoods, etc. I'll make sure to take a look at those next time, as they sound interesting. Based on everyone's feedback and some other research I've been doing, I think I'll be focusing my search as follows:
Austin - downtown, SoCo, East Austin
Houston - Montrose, Heights, Midtown
Dallas - Deep Ellum, Bishop, Exposition, and Oak Cliff / Oak Lawn?
Sound about right?
I also forgot to mention that I would be working downtown regardless of the city.
Regardless of which city you choose, those neighborhoods will probably suite you the best although none of the cities above will have any resemblance to NYC obviously. Anyways welcome to Texas.
The music scene in Austin consists of a run down club called Emo's (plus 10 other box buildings that look the same) and a festival featuring has-beens called South By Southwest/ACL. I kid you not. Stay the hell away from Austin, Texas. I lived there for one year and I was bored to tears every single weekend. I'd go out to the overcrowded downtown and "party" and it was so boring: nothing to do but see people stare at each other getting drunk and goofing off. Horrible experience: horrible people!
Some other poster mentioned Uptown in Dallas. Move there: check out West Village, Victory Park, or The West End while you are at it too. Contemporary Art is very huge in Dallas: a lot of people attend art receptions at various museums and galleries in the evenings and enjoy the free wine and free food samples.
Agreed. I really don't have any friends who would recommend going to Austin for anything more than a boring weekend. Progressive? Austin?? Artsy is correct. If Austin is a progressive city, I would HATE to see what a backassward city looks like. Austin has among the MOST corrupt city governments in the country. There ultimate goal is the shun every non rich household into the suburbs so they can claim a city ENTIRELY for rich white people. Think thats a lie?? Take a look at the overhwhelming demographics of Austin's central and downtown areas???
Nightlife in Dallas is the best in the state without a doubt. I usually head to McKinney street to hang out with my friends, but over the past few months, we've actually been spending more time at some awesome clubs in west Plano. Yeah, Addison is pretty fun too!!
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Originally Posted by artsyguy
You have no clue what you are talking about: people mislead me to go to Austin because it was supposed to be a big huge progressive and modern bastion. I felt like I went back in time by 60 years: that is how lousy Austin, Texas is. Please stay the hell away from the city and move to Dallas, Texas. Dallas is a vast and modern city with a lot of great nightlife. You don't see traffic and crowding out on the streets like you do in Austin because the people in Dallas are inside partying and having a good time.
Agreed. I really don't have any friends who would recommend going to Austin for anything more than a boring weekend. Progressive? Austin?? Artsy is correct. If Austin is a progressive city, I would HATE to see what a backassward city looks like. Austin has among the MOST corrupt city governments in the country. There ultimate goal is the shun every non rich household into the suburbs so they can claim a city ENTIRELY for rich white people. Think thats a lie?? Take a look at the overhwhelming demographics of Austin's central and downtown areas???
Look at Dallas's central and downtown demographics in all these "hip" neighborhoods like Uptown. They look literally identical to Austin's (if not more whitewashed).
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Originally Posted by eepstein
Nightlife in Dallas is the best in the state without a doubt. I usually head to McKinney street to hang out with my friends, but over the past few months, we've actually been spending more time at some awesome clubs in west Plano. Yeah, Addison is pretty fun too!!
I suppose the chain sports bars are your scene, of which, certainly, there is a limited selection of in downtown Austin. Makes perfect sense...
I'm guessing you'd suggest a "fun" weekend in Plano or Addison, then? LOL. You guys make it easy for me!
I have numerous times. pick any of the responses in this very post.
Dallas County -2,692/sq mi
Travis County -1,036/sq mi (and it gets worse further out while Dallas picks up in pockets)
is not a legitimate response to this:
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Originally Posted by HtownLove
respond to this statement: what difference does it make if there are some "dense" clusters away from the core, when all of Texas's cities are sprawling, auto-centric, and generally very low density?
You can regurgitate facts and figures from Wikipedia all day long--anyone can do that. I am asking you why it matters in the first place. When one county has 2,000 people per square mile and one has 1,000, both are low density. Likewise, when both cities have circa 3,000 people per square mile, they are both low density. The difference between the two is totally imperceptible to the average person. Does that make sense to you?
Based on your posts, I am left to conclude that you find Harris and Dallas County to be densely populated. Given that they have population densities of ~2,000 people per square mile, clearly your criteria for "density" is a fully-developed suburban neighborhood of single family homes.
Again, I ask (hoping for a direct reply this time): why does it matter if there are so-called "dense pockets" outside the core?
I'm still puzzled as to how you find my posts "hypocritical." (But in the interest of maintaining our current trajectory without delving into semantics, I'll accept the title.) Anywho, I'm "calling you out" because I'm asking you a question; I didn't necessarily disagree with you. You still have yet to respond to that question (hint: read above).
Austin is not dense outside downtown.
It looks like small town neighborhoods any direction you go. The city itself is tiny so it makes it easy to commute by bike but it sucks to drive in. They have a great night life there and it is cheap. But when I lived there, I was bored A LOT. Austin isn't a big city and doesn't have the big city ammenities. The downtown area is decent but 6th street will get old fast. There's also not that much outside of downtown. The public transit sucks. But my main complaint from living here was that it is just not a big city.
Dallas does indeed have several areas. Fair Park, Deep Ellum, Bishop Arts, Lower Greenville/Henderson would be more of the alternative vibe, while Uptown, Oaklawn, Addison, Park Cities, Knox, and Legacy are a little more douche bag crowds, but still fun. The public transit is nothing in comparison to NYC but it will be the best you find in the state. As I said earlier, there is a large punk and electro crowd here. It definitely has more areas of dense neighborhoods than Austin. Once you leave Austin's core, it is rare to see buildings over 10 stories and very few, if any are residential.
I am not very familiar with Houston, but from what I have seen, it is comparible to Dallas. Public transit isn't quite as good but there are plenty of dense and urban neighborhoods outside of the city's core.
You can regurgitate facts and figures from Wikipedia all day long--anyone can do that. I am asking you why it matters in the first place. When one county has 2,000 people per square mile and one has 1,000, both are low density. Likewise, when both cities have circa 3,000 people per square mile, they are both low density. The difference between the two is totally imperceptible to the average person. Does that make sense to you?
Based on your posts, I am left to conclude that you find Harris and Dallas County to be densely populated. Given that they have population densities of ~2,000 people per square mile, clearly your criteria for "density" is a fully-developed suburban neighborhood of single family homes.
Basically he's saying that both cities are denser than Austin. Austin isn't very big, and outside of the core, it looks like Denton, TX.
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Originally Posted by feconi
Again, I ask (hoping for a direct reply this time): why does it matter if there are so-called "dense pockets" outside the core?
I'm still puzzled as to how you find my posts "hypocritical." (But in the interest of maintaining our current trajectory without delving into semantics, I'll accept the title.) Anywho, I'm "calling you out" because I'm asking you a question; I didn't necessarily disagree with you. You still have yet to respond to that question (hint: read above).
Because he is coming from the largest city in US. Moving to Austin was a huge shock to me, from Dallas. From NYC to Austin is a HUGE jump.
To clear up some MAJOR mis-informtion by Feconi, the in-town neighborhoods of Dallas are VERY densely populated for a non-Manhattan neighborhood.
Uptown Dallas (75204) - population density is 12,713 per square mile. Diversity is 40% white, 35% Hispanic, 15% black, 5% Asian, 3% Mixed/other. Not excactly lily white, as you claim!
Oak Lawn/ Turtle Creek (75219) - 12,734 density per square mile. 44% white, 30% Hispanic, 5% Asian, 6% black, 15% other/mixed.
M Streets/ Henderson Ave (75206) - 9,729 density per square mile. 53% White, 27% Hispanic, 4% black, 3% Asian, 13% other/mixed
For comparison, Brooklyn Heights is 32,000 per square mile. Forest Hills (Queens) is 28,300 per square mile. Riverdale (Bronx) is 40,000 per square mile. So for the in-town Dallas neighborhoods to be only 1/2 or 1/3 as dense as BK/QN/BX neighborhoods is really pretty dense. They aren't 1/100th as dense as Feconi would like to make you think. And not all NYC neighborhoods are 100,000 people per square mile like the Upper East Side or West Village are.
The top 2 urban places in Texas is Central Austin and Inner Loop Houston (west of DT). The world view is much different in Austin vs. Houston. Austin is the provincial isolationist in its focus (due to being the government center of the state) and Houston is the cosmopolitan globalist in its focus (due to being the commercial center and the major seaport for the state). It's up to you to choose the attitude that suits your personality!
Have you considered San Antonio? That's a much bigger city with a better commercial base only 80 miles away from Austin and more laid back without the over-the-top deviance in Austin. The terrain is more interesting, from flat in the inner city to gradually becoming hiller approaching the northern rim of suburbs.
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