Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
OMGosh!! That house is FAB!!! I emailed the link to otherhalf ~ he promptly called and instructed me to go out and buy lotto tix! LOL! Love, love, love it. If I buy it, all of the furniture and decor must stay. aaaahhhhhhhhhh......
Just thought you would like to know that the Monticello Park MCM you talked about on page 2 is for sale again... this time for "only" $449,000!!!
The website of the realtor (the one based in Alamo Heights) has some wonderful pics of the interior.
I honestly don't think that the home will sell for this much, but the current owners (who I heard are moving to an old New Orleans home) have done some beautiful restoration work to it.
SON OF A B***H! I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS! That was my dream house!
Okay, okay, calm down, boy.
But I MUST say 449K in Monticello is just plain CRAZY, even for an O'Neil Ford, and they really didn't do any major improvements from what I can see, just added super-cool furniture/art, etc. (included in the price? Yeah, right!)
That place was immaculate, a real time warp, when I toured it back in 2002 (or 2003? It seems like forever though, now), in terms of being virtually untouched, and VERY well-kept, since the Karem family that built it lived there the whole time and obviously really loved it (there was a large scrap book that came with the house, with the original architectural plans, letters to and from Ford, newspaper clippings, tons of photos, etc.). The only thing I can maybe see that they did was to clean the kitchen up, I mean it's all still original (cabinetry, appliances - well except for a new dishwasher and fridge - the old original ovens are still there I see - awesome), but the cabinets now look a lil' spruced up compared to what I remember, which was the only "flaw" when I looked it over. It was a VERY well-used kitchen (I mean, c'mon they were restauranters after all!).
But man, a 249K increase in 4 years? That's just silly considering that Monticello Park, although "transitioning" (as it has been for 20 years!), is, well, how to put it? It's just in a weird part of the city, hard to explain, it's close to downtown but not a straight shoot (and actually a bit of a pain to get to from there), AND it's just TOO close to a major "murder-zone" as I call it (Zarzamora area), and the homeless problem can be a bit much after awhile, plus a real lack of really good restaurants (barring Tip top Cafe, of course!), places to shop, etc....BUT still, that small patch of Mary Louise is nice (my old high-school psychologist, a very well-respected professor at the UT Health Science Center, still lives across the street from that mod joint in a really nice 30's 2-story Spanish Revival pad - yeah, I was a "problem teenager," aka, I liked to party a bit much, which didn't appeal much to ol' mom)...BUT for 325-350K, I would consider it - well, NOT now, I just bought a place, well, 6 months ago, but still "new" to me, in an area I LOVE (I can walk to HEB Central Market, etc. - a big deal to me).
I just NEVER in a million years thought this house would go back on the market. It's just TOO cool...BUT there has been a mass exodus the past couple of years from Monticello Park by frustrated gentrifiers (is that a real word?) who have just thrown in the towel (I know several, well, like 6 of that "ilk"). I would be quite supsect of that New Orleans transfer story, probably just trying to trade-up to Monte Vista. What a bad time to put it on the market though, every other house is for sale these days it seems.
Someone who loves MCM on this board, offer 'em 325K and see what happens?
The house is incredible (drool), but I agree is WAY overpriced for Monticello Park. I think that a lot of the stuff in that area is overpriced, actually. (I practically live on the MLS.)
It's like they want to think that they are as far along the road as Monte Vista, etc as far as revitalization goes, but they aren't there yet, and shouldn't price as if they are. I say that as someone who really likes MP, and thinks it has great potential, but those buying there expecting to flip or see great increases immediately need to think again and get a little more realistic.
The house is incredible (drool), but I agree is WAY overpriced for Monticello Park. I think that a lot of the stuff in that area is overpriced, actually. (I practically live on the MLS.)
It's like they want to think that they are as far along the road as Monte Vista, etc as far as revitalization goes, but they aren't there yet, and shouldn't price as if they are. I say that as someone who really likes MP, and thinks it has great potential, but those buying there expecting to flip or see great increases immediately need to think again and get a little more realistic.
You said it, 100% correct, there's a reason why it's dubbed "the poor man's Monte Vista," which is not to to offend folks that live there, the actual fella that spearheaded the re-do of the deco building on Fredericksburg and Zarzamora (a fantastic job btw,but STILL empty from what I can tell, and they just didn't attract who they wanted there, namely art galleries, and art-related non-profits, etc.) even called it that (jokingly), and lived down the street from me when I lived there a couple of years ago. He also recently sold his house after throwing his hands up in the air and just plain saying "aw, forget it!" after REALLY working hard on the revitalization of the neighborhood (and man, he was enthusiastic as they come, just raved about how the area was going to change). It's an AMAZING house though, no doubt about it. In Terrell Hills or Alamo Heights, it would be WELL over a million (think like 1.6 million). It's too bad, because MP has some AMAZING old homes. And yeah, the thing will MP though is that they try and sell high (who doesn't?), but 99% of the time don't even get close to asking price.
And yeah, the thing will MP though is that they try and sell high (who doesn't?), but 99% of the time don't even get close to asking price.
My take on it, from the massive amounts of driving and looking around that I've done, is that MP doesn't have what some of the other neighborhoods have - proximity.
It's close to downtown, but it's sort of stuck over by itself. Whereas Tobin Hill, Mahnke Park, Beacon Hill, Alta Vista, and heck, even scary Government Hill have the advantage of being sort of sandwiched near already revitalized areas like Monte Vista, Olmos Park, Alamo Heights. On the Southside, the improvements are spreading from King Wllm to Lavaca and down the river district.
I think even the crappiest neighborhoods that are sandwiched between two very desirable neighborhoods, or on their edges, will progress faster than MP. Inside the MP neighborhood itself has some really great architecture and beautiful trees and good people and things. Heck, I'd live there for the right house. But MP doesn't have that proximity factor. It has to generate all the revitalization ITSELF, instead of getting a degree of bleed-over upward mobility from neighboring areas.
I believe it will get there, as it's really a little jewel of an area. But those thinking it's the same as the others, and on the same timetable, are getting waaaay beyond themselves. Just my observation.
Wow, guys. As a Monticello resident (hey, just look at the screen name), all I can say is "ouch." Thing is, ya'll are right. At least I knew what I was getting into when we bought into the neighborhood, but I have felt bad for those that moved in (say from out of state) thinking it was just like Monte Vista only cheaper.
Things HAVE improved in the last 10 years, but it sure has been slow. The main problem is the city (and SAISD) don't seem to want to do their part. For example, a new day laborer place opened up at the edge of the neighborhood last year - no permit. The neighborhood fought it and how were they rewarded? A parking variance was given to the owner. The neighborhood still fought it, and eventually convinced the owner to close it down. The homeless traffic HAS now been cut down, but for every step forward, the city puts us a half step back.
To sum up, Monticello Park never really became a "bad" neighborhood. The homes weren't chopped up into apartments and you still had a good mix of people. It just hasn't jumped in value as fast as a lot of people expected (although our values ARE higher than San Antonio's median). Why? Location, location, location. I myself have joked with people that we are a 1000 home island. But then again, so is Windcrest. Personally, I like the middle class aspect - I wouldn't be able to afford our house if it was at Monte Vista prices. Now if we could just do something about the schools.
Sorry, didn't mean for the thread to veer away from MCM.
Wow, guys. As a Monticello resident (hey, just look at the screen name), all I can say is "ouch."
I meant no disrespect, honest. I think I said several times that I think MP is charming, and that I'd live there! I also think that eventually it may be very sought after for the architecture and convenience. I was only pointing out that people who buy right now thinking it's on a "Monte Vista fast track", or try to sell at inflated prices thinking the same, are a little mistaken. There are some hindrances that are slowing MP down on reclaiming the vibrancy it once had, but it'll get there.
Wow, guys. As a Monticello resident (hey, just look at the screen name), all I can say is "ouch." Thing is, ya'll are right. At least I knew what I was getting into when we bought into the neighborhood, but I have felt bad for those that moved in (say from out of state) thinking it was just like Monte Vista only cheaper.
Things HAVE improved in the last 10 years, but it sure has been slow. The main problem is the city (and SAISD) don't seem to want to do their part. For example, a new day laborer place opened up at the edge of the neighborhood last year - no permit. The neighborhood fought it and how were they rewarded? A parking variance was given to the owner. The neighborhood still fought it, and eventually convinced the owner to close it down. The homeless traffic HAS now been cut down, but for every step forward, the city puts us a half step back.
To sum up, Monticello Park never really became a "bad" neighborhood. The homes weren't chopped up into apartments and you still had a good mix of people. It just hasn't jumped in value as fast as a lot of people expected (although our values ARE higher than San Antonio's median). Why? Location, location, location. I myself have joked with people that we are a 1000 home island. But then again, so is Windcrest. Personally, I like the middle class aspect - I wouldn't be able to afford our house if it was at Monte Vista prices. Now if we could just do something about the schools.
Sorry, didn't mean for the thread to veer away from MCM.
Yeah, I hear ya, sorry for making ya "ouch" - MP just didn't work out for me in the long-run for a myriad of reasons (I've posted on my MP problem before, so I won't retread it here...)...BUT, funny thing, my mom moved there (into MY old house actually) and she LOVES it there, (and she HATES where I live, in the dreaded 78209 zone! Says it's too snobby )
No need for apologies - the "ouch" was just in good fun (this internet thing just didn't show the smile I had on my face when I typed the phrase). Trust me, the location comment is made to me quite often by a friend who lives in Olmos Park Terrace. We both try to get others to move into our 'hoods, and we tell them that MP has better homes, but OPT has the better location.
I echo the inflated prices comment. For me, I would much rather have a stable (but slowly increasing in value) community that doesn't encourage "flippers," than one that does. Yes, some of the flippers have done marvelous jobs to some of the homes, but many have destroyed the history of others while trying to make too much money off of shoddy work.
And now back to MCM... Googie, I also toured the house in 2002 (?) and it was everything I had imagined it would be from the exterior. Many of our homes in MP don't live up on the interior to what the exterior hints at, but this was one of those that does. I just feel fortunate that I get to admire it every morning on the way to work. One thing, though. When the current owners were getting approval to repaint the exterior wood, they mentioned another architect as the designer - not O'Neil Ford. I forget his name (it's written down somewhere), but I did a little research and found that he was a contemporary of Ford, and was even interviewed for a book on Ford. Your information about the letters you saw was particularly enlightening. I just wonder why it's not advertised as an O'Neil Ford house.
Googie, MPinSC,
And now back to MCM... Googie, I also toured the house in 2002 (?) and it was everything I had imagined it would be from the exterior. Many of our homes in MP don't live up on the interior to what the exterior hints at, but this was one of those that does. I just feel fortunate that I get to admire it every morning on the way to work. One thing, though. When the current owners were getting approval to repaint the exterior wood, they mentioned another architect as the designer - not O'Neil Ford. I forget his name (it's written down somewhere), but I did a little research and found that he was a contemporary of Ford, and was even interviewed for a book on Ford. Your information about the letters you saw was particularly enlightening. I just wonder why it's not advertised as an O'Neil Ford house.
Wow, okay, now you have me diggin' out my O'Neil Ford book, and yeah, you're most likely right on the $$$ - since it was built in 1967 (according to BCAD) and I don't see it listed in that year as a residence of his according to "O'Neil Ford, Architect" by Mary George, MAYBE it was done by his partner Boone Powell (or Chris Carson) with his guiding hand? I saw that scrapbook with tons of papers in it that were shown to me back in 2002, but I just glanced over them and saw Ford's name on some stuff, and it's such a textbook "Ford-ish" looking structure. Maybe they were confused? I was also told by the two Karem granddaughters, who gave the tour to me that day,that either O'Neil Ford's wife or brother (Lynn Ford) designed and built the door and the dining room table (a HUGE table BTW) - they both scream Lynn Ford though, to me, anyway.
I'm pretty certain it's not Milton Ryan though - although they share characteristics of his work. He was hardcore MCM, but in a Ford-vein as well, but he built in Terrell Hills, Alamo Heights, and Bel Meade exclusively (unless I've been steered wrong on that too - it's difficult, to say the least, to find ANYTHING on Milton Ryan's work - I have 2 very brief magazine articles and
1 page showcasing his own residence in Terrell Hills in an ol' tattered architectural book, not much info though). Hmmm, what is this mystery? You have me quite intrigued, good sir.
BTW, speaking of ol' Lynn Ford, if you ever drive down Broadway, sneak a peek at the Ford-designed (Volkswagon) Intercontinental Motors Building (3303 Broadway) - Lynn's copper planters are still there, just rotting away, what a shame, all that work, all done by hand, just trashed, ugh. Here are some recent pics I took while sneaking around the building (also of note are the Martha Mood ceramic scones inside, I'd LOVE to have those!):
Anyhoo, you NEED to solve this mystery, or it will drive me absolutely NUTS (more than I am anyway )!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Love, love, love it. If I buy it, all of the furniture and decor must stay. aaaahhhhhhhhhh......
