I've never been to the Roc before but is Rochester as bad as people say it is? (Charlotte: how much, houses)
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Jwilliams you must be crazy. Don't you know that 20 somethings who have never lived anywhere else know better that Rochester is a terrible place to live not worth living in than people who have lived and experienced life elsewhere? We are the ignorant ones, not them!
It doesn't matter where/how many places anyone has lived before. The fact remains that this place in its current state is a dump. You could have lived in 50 different cities around the country and it doesn't change the fact that this city blows.
It doesn't matter where/how many places anyone has lived before. The fact remains that this place in its current state is a dump. You could have lived in 50 different cities around the country and it doesn't change the fact that this city blows.
Although a hell hole is a hell hole regardless of how many places a person has been to I'm still left unable to reconcile how, for example, a suburb of Rochester, NY is a dump. A decent middle-wage income can gain a person a large, new house in a good area with a very high-ranked school system. Meanwhile this person has many amenities close by and some of the better traffic congestion (i.e. not much of it) in the country. Further, this person lives within several hours of many major US cities and has access to many winter sports and a surprisingly _long_ summer, spring, and fall with which their time can be spent on a multitude of outdoor activities. Just for grins let's pile on the fact that unemployment is two points below the national average.
Yeah, definitely a dump, the city certainly blows indeed. Why people who could otherwise leave stay is a testament to their blindness, I'm sure.
The only real complaint I have with this area or NY in general is that taxes are high and although what is bought by these is not always bad, in some cases they are overblown and there is excessive government and bureaucracy.
Mentioned in this thread or another, the malaise that Xerox and Kodak have had has infected more people than have been directly impacted by these two companies' falls from grace. I've experienced at work before how one bad apple of discontent can spread and rot out others who were not like that and Kodak/Xerox employees seem to have in some cases done that to folks around here.
It doesn't matter where/how many places anyone has lived before. The fact remains that this place in its current state is a dump. You could have lived in 50 different cities around the country and it doesn't change the fact that this city blows.
You seem to be missing the point...first of all you still consider your opinion to be "fact"...something that, in every aspect of life, you'll hopefully soon realize isn't a good practice. Second, you have that opinion based ONLY off living in Rochester with nothing else to compare it to. I'm not saying Rochester is perfect by any means, but it certainly isn't the worst place to live and is not a place that everyone in their right mind should avoid living as your childish and inaccurate fly-by comments on this forum consistently suggest.
I hope you do move away to some place that better suits you because it's quite obvious staying here is having some very negative consequences on your emotional well being; and I hope you find happiness wherever it is that you end up. But then maybe hopefully you can realize that the way you view things isn't the way that everyone else does and other people can be happy with what you are unhappy with and vice versa.
Although a hell hole is a hell hole regardless of how many places a person has been to I'm still left unable to reconcile how, for example, a suburb of Rochester, NY is a dump. A decent middle-wage income can gain a person a large, new house in a good area with a very high-ranked school system
At $7,000+/yr. in property taxes, high utility bills, probably $6,000+++ state income taxes (assuming a couple, each with good incomes).
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Meanwhile this person has many amenities close by and some of the better traffic congestion (i.e. not much of it) in the country. Further, this person lives within several hours of many major US cities and has access to many winter sports and a surprisingly _long_ summer, spring, and fall with which their time can be spent on a multitude of outdoor activities.
Toronto is closer to Rochester than NYC, and even that city has kinda lost its sheen over the last 10 years or so (just ask any rational Canadian).
Boston is a bit of a haul. Philly just plain ain't worth it, unless one wants to see the historic sites.
I see what you're driving at, however, Upstate lends itself well to folks who are active in the outdoors most of the year, and those willing to fly to other destinations.
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[Just for grins let's pile on the fact that unemployment is two points below the national average.
After a mass-exodus of young, and not-so-young, productive people.
It took 4 years for Rochester to start pulling out of the last recession. Judging by government stats, I'd venture to guess there are a lot of retirees, there, which means young people are still moving away in droves, and the metro struggles to attract people to it.
Interestingly enough, young, ex-pat professionals like myself often times get calls from head hunters in that area whom are under contract to help local companies find qualified help. Something doesn't add up, there
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Yeah, definitely a dump, the city certainly blows indeed. Why people who could otherwise leave stay is a testament to their blindness, I'm sure.
The only real complaint I have with this area or NY in general is that taxes are high and although what is bought by these is not always bad, in some cases they are overblown and there is excessive government and bureaucracy.
Mentioned in this thread or another, the malaise that Xerox and Kodak have had has infected more people than have been directly impacted by these two companies' falls from grace. I've experienced at work before how one bad apple of discontent can spread and rot out others who were not like that and Kodak/Xerox employees seem to have in some cases done that to folks around here.
Good points. I'll admit that one thing which was a turn-off to me as an educated, working adult in Rochester was the focus on trying to re-live the past, or whatever. There's still too much dwelling on Kodak's demise, which is interesting considering that company was not the only good employer in town back, say, in 1980. One co-worker I had as a machine set-up guy got laid off from Kodak in '90 when they were drastically cutting their inventories in the warehouses off Lee Road. He was making $30/hr., plus benefits No wonder $13 or whatever it was wasn't up to his standards, but, that's what happens when folks aren't too terribly educated and have few options after losing such a job. Kills me, too, how a lot of those manufacturing folks, both union and non-union, often times would blow the education money which was given to them as part of their severence from those companies. We're talking $20K+, 10+ years ago.
Worse are the entitlement-attitude types, and not only did the Big 3 employ folks like that during the boom times, but the assorted union shops around town had an inordinate number of them, chiefly Delco/ITT Auto/Valeo.
Like you I've heard people who were never associated with Kodak (we weren't a "Kodak family") who claim the entire economy in Rochester is somehow in a "shambles" because of that company's demise, despite the obvious and sundry factors and variables which have affected the economy there and in the rest of Upstate. Rochester has assets other cities are envious of, although economic growth has been in fits and starts in the last 10 years. A positive is how many former Kodakers and others have started their own small businesses as entrepreneurs, not only on the west side where Kodak and other companies flourished for years but also eastern Monroe, western Wayne, and NWern Ontario counties. If the state were to get its act together, as well as local government and special interests around Rochester the local economy would be a hotbed of tech activity.
Although a hell hole is a hell hole regardless of how many places a person has been to I'm still left unable to reconcile how, for example, a suburb of Rochester, NY is a dump.
The suburbs are the exception, since some areas are far enough away from the city to maintain their sheen. Unfortunately, the dump part of the city is ever expanding in to the outskirts of the suburbs, with southeast Greece being a prime example.
But what I'm talking about is the actual city of Rochester, not the suburbs. Rochester itself is a filthy place with no forward thinking and no momentum going in to the future. And if my mailing address has to say Rochester instead of Greece, it's embarrassing. The world has changed and adapted to the modern, tech savvy place most young people desire, while Rochester has stayed in the past, resting on the laurels of its history. Hopefully now that Paetec is moving forward with bringing in a modern building with modern if not downright futuristic amenities will ignite a spark of modernization in the downtown area. I'm not holding high hopes, but there's a chance for everything I suppose.
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Originally Posted by I'minformed2
You seem to be missing the point...first of all you still consider your opinion to be "fact"...
Fact: the City of Rochester, within the city limits, is a filthy hell hole, with the exception of the very small and isolated pocket that is the Park Ave neighborhood. You think it's just an opinion? Go walk down Main St from State to Goodman and tell me what you see. This is the area that *should* be the core of the city itself, the very heartbeat of downtown that gives it life and energy. Back in the prospering days of Rochester, it was just that. Today, not so much. But I'm sure you somehow see it different.
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Originally Posted by HowardRoarke
Like you I've heard people who were never associated with Kodak (we weren't a "Kodak family") who claim the entire economy in Rochester is somehow in a "shambles" because of that company's demise....
Coming from a 3 generation Kodak family, I can tell you firsthand that the older Rochesterians people see it that way because the Kodak people made good wages and had amazing year end bonuses. Those bonuses were huge back when they were given out like candy every Christmas, and local retailers banked on them for holiday shopping. Add to that the fact that just about anyone with a family tie at Kodak could get in, start at the bottom and work almost as high as they wanted to through hard work and little politics (unlike todays corporate world), and it's no surprise that Kodaks demise has been a huge, huge hit to the local economy. It's not like there are tons of $40k+/yr jobs out there to fill the void that Kodak left. If there were, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And I highly doubt that there are thousands of entrepreneurs that have started their own businesses around here after leaving Kodak. There just isn't an economy/population to support something like that.
But what I'm talking about is the actual city of Rochester, not the suburbs.
That's fair. I haven't heard much good about the city. What I see about it in the news does not interest me in visiting it and in my years here I've spent probably 15 hours in the city in that entire time! The city-proper is suffering from what many US cities suffer; suburban flight.
Kodak's demise obviously hit a lot of people but many cities never had something like that to wax nostalgic over anyway.
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Kills me, too, how a lot of those manufacturing folks, both union and non-union, often times would blow the education money which was given to them as part of their severence from those companies. We're talking $20K+, 10+ years ago
It is a shame. I do know first-hand of people in manufacturing in this area and by anybody's standard it's a shrinking field to be in as far as the typical person operating a machine is concerned. But these people are not getting educated to move into a different field when/if their job is removed.
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It's not like there are tons of $40k+/yr jobs out there to fill the void that Kodak left.
Nope, not for somebody with highschool and little real skills. Such people currently employed MUST start training for a new, skilled profession.
The suburbs are the exception, since some areas are far enough away from the city to maintain their sheen. Unfortunately, the dump part of the city is ever expanding in to the outskirts of the suburbs, with southeast Greece being a prime example.
But what I'm talking about is the actual city of Rochester, not the suburbs. Rochester itself is a filthy place with no forward thinking and no momentum going in to the future.
This is simply not true. If anything the suburbs are more backward thinking since they have more people with attitudes such as yours that like to make sweeping untrue generalizations and racist comments. When I travel to southeast Greece, I still see well kept homes and clean neighborhoods. There is still low crime in that area. You might be upset that there are minorities moving in there, but to the normal person, minorities are no big deal.
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The world has changed and adapted to the modern, tech savvy place most young people desire, while Rochester has stayed in the past, resting on the laurels of its history. Hopefully now that Paetec is moving forward with bringing in a modern building with modern if not downright futuristic amenities will ignite a spark of modernization in the downtown area. I'm not holding high hopes, but there's a chance for everything I suppose.[/quote]
again, not true. This city is no more or no less tech savy than your average American city. You should do some traveling.
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Fact: the City of Rochester, within the city limits, is a filthy hell hole, with the exception of the very small and isolated pocket that is the Park Ave neighborhood. You think it's just an opinion? Go walk down Main St from State to Goodman and tell me what you see.[/quote]
no, not a fact. A narrow minded, off base opinion. Other than park ave, you have the south wedge with has grown by leaps and bounds in terms of a desirable place in the past 10 years. There are also neighborhoods such as browncroft, merchants, corn hill, charlotte, etc. These are all well kept areas. Even in some of the neighborhoods you claim as high crime such as the 19th ward are filled with mostly well kept homes. If you go from State St to Goodman you will find a mix of an urban downtown, a dumpy area and new construction. I don't know what point you are trying toprove there.
Yes, god forbid you actually try to debate when somebody challenges you. Just scoff and repeat your rhetoric.
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No wonder $13 or whatever it was wasn't up to his standards, but, that's what happens when folks aren't too terribly educated and have few options after losing such a job. Kills me, too, how a lot of those manufacturing folks, both union and non-union, often times would blow the education money which was given to them as part of their severence from those companies. We're talking $20K+, 10+ years ago. 
