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when someone mis-identifies something as a "fact"
and it is instead a belief, opinion view
then for clarity in discussion, it is useful to point that out.
when someone mis-identifies something as a "fact"
and it is instead a belief, opinion view
then for clarity in discussion, it is useful to point that out.
Any real God wouldn't care if you believed in him or not. Same goes for Jesus if he's a decent guy.
If somebody created this whole universe (with billions of GALAXIES), and for some reason loves you, then he's not going to care if you accept his existence on faith which he has given you no evidence for.
I'm no longer a militant atheist or one that really cares that much what anybody else thinks personally, if it brings them the comfort they need.
An actual God would love everybody, no matter what their beliefs are. He would also not care what their actions are, since events are determined by prior events and/or quantum randomness. 'Free will' is a magical concept that does not exist. Essentially, so is the self. God already knows what you're going to do and is not worried about any of it. And/or, God is all in people's heads. Either way, essentially it doesn't matter.
The 'God' that is sitting there judging the poor human animals on what they do and think (which comes from their genetics/environment/etc), is a sadist, cruel, awful god that would be the opposite of someone to worship.
I always get quite a kick out of anyone who thinks they could possibly know what "any real God" would or would not do. The possibilities of believing one thing or another are endless and entirely dependent on who you ask...
Most notions like yours are also entirely in keeping with how we humans tend to view all things, "through the lens of human experience." "We're made in God's image" after all. Of course this is entirely fair and to be expected. Needless to say quite subjective as well. AKA human nature.
I too am an atheist, however, and I can easily align with what we might prefer to think with respect to how the god we might imagine should act. It's all quite hypothetical in any case, so whatever anyone wants to believe about their god is fair game. Good, wrathful, forever watching, judging, caring about "his children." There is no logic or reason one can apply to such speculation such that any version of a god is much better or worse than the next.
Why, quite frankly, I get a kick out of anyone who makes that sort of attempt and effort...
of insufficient importance to document.
he is not a figure in Jewish history.
Is this true?
I'm an atheist, but I've always considered Jesus "a figure" in history. I thought it was that Jews simply didn't believe Jesus to be a deity. Just like atheists don't. But he remains a figure in human history far as most people are concerned. Even far as atheists and many Jewish people are concerned. Right?
If I am right, then your statement should be that Jesus is not a figure in history far as YOU are concerned.
Free will does not exist and is an illusion, but that doesn't undermine our social morality or responsibility or the importance of freedom, etc. It's just a kinder, more accurate look at the world, that acknowledges that we don't all have full responsibility for any harm or good we cause in the world. Our consciousness is along for the ride. We can't magically be any better people than we are able to be.
The concept you are describing here is difficult for most people to wrap their mental arms around...
Certainly thought provoking, because I too understand all we think is a function of nothing but processes that go on in the brain, and those processes don't very well provide for what we feel is our "free will." I have to wonder if we yet understand all those processes as well as we should. Such that whatever feels like our ability to exercise free will can be explained by way of better understanding what goes on in the brain.
In the meantime, whatever it is that gives me the feeling I can decide what I'm going to think, do or believe is difficult to consider pre-determined or unalterable. For example, I'm going to decide when to sign off from this forum to get on with preparing our customary BSB this morning as I usually do on Sundays. Exactly when feels like a choice and freedom I can exercise anytime.
How does all this work exactly? I'm not so sure...
"We" don't exist. The self does not actually exist. It's just a concept we use to communicate. I'm made up entirely of atoms, and so are you. The whole universe, is all made up of atoms. The concept of "me" is more or less just a shorthand. It's something we experience as part of the wondrous mystery of our consciousness.
As part of this consciousness, we think we have freedom, but we don't. It's ultimately an illusion.
We do make conscious choices, but, ultimately everything that makes up those conscious choices, is determined by prior causes (or quantum randomness), outside of "your" control. The illusion of the conscious choice, comes from thoughts that actually arise from our subconscious.
You can do what you want, but you don't actually have free will, because that whole concept is an illusion.
We can still judge human behavior, definitely have a justice system, all that. But we should try to examine the underlying causes of people's behaviors, and bad behaviors.
see, not everyone holds the belief you do that everything is pre-determined and there is no free choice.
if you are calling other beliefs "total nonsense"
then surely you recognize how some might similarly call your own beliefs "total nonsense."
"blame the brain" and "blame quantum randomness" sounds to me like saying humans do not have free choice and everything is pre-determined. i disagree with that beilef.
I'm not sure where this little debate will lead or how productive it can possibly be considering the typical success rate in this forum when it comes to such things, but if the rationale or belief you are describing here is perfectly reasonable and rational, then I am hard pressed to judge any rationale or belief to be otherwise by comparison.
when someone mis-identifies something as a "fact"
and it is instead a belief, opinion view
then for clarity in discussion, it is useful to point that out.
Isn't this exactly what Phet is suggesting you should do as well? About your beliefs, opinions, views?
Is this true? I'm an atheist, but I've always considered Jesus "a figure" in history. I thought it was that Jews simply didn't believe Jesus to be a deity. Just like atheists don't. But he remains a figure in human history far as most people are concerned. Even far as atheists and many Jewish people are concerned. Right? If I am right, then your statement should be that Jesus is not a figure in history far as YOU are concerned.
no, that is not accurate what you are stating, because you are not reading the posts carefully.
She asked specifically about the position of Jewish historians and Jewish history. The reply and response answered that question.
here are the posts in their entirety:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
What's the position of Jewish historians on the historicity of Jesus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
of insufficient importance to document.
he is not a figure in Jewish history.
no, that is not accurate what you are stating, because you are not reading the posts carefully.
She asked specifically about the position of Jewish historians and Jewish history. The reply and response answered that question.
here are the posts in their entirety:
Okay. I was quoting you verbatim, and I think even some Jewish historians consider Jesus a "figure" in world history. There's and everyone else's, but okay...
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