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Einstein spoke of god. "God does not play dice with the Universe". Einstein was proven wrong. But there's at least one book, maybe more, I haven't checked in a long time, full of Einstein quotes about god.
Unfortunately Einstein said so many different things it is difficult to say what his idea of God was.
he was a Jew. his entire life he lived as a Jew and taught as a Jew.
That's what I thought. But the OP in his research failed to consult Jewish sources. The OP's topic wasn't whether or not Jesus was anyone special; it was whether Jesus ever existed at all. What are the Jewish sources for a historical Jesus?
According to Tzaph, there's some kind of evidence in Jewish history, it sounds like.
Late Jewish history. It also says Jesus lived and died almost a century before the gospels do, that he and his 5 disciples were stoned to death in Lydda, and then hung.
Late Jewish history. It also says Jesus lived and died almost a century before the gospels do, that he and his 5 disciples were stoned to death in Lydda, and then hung.
Why were they stoned to death? Who stoned them? And what do we make of the time discrepancy in the two versions of the story?
According to Tzaph, there's some kind of evidence in Jewish history, it sounds like. Islam also references him.
no, not evidence.
just the response and view that he was not the messiah.
evidence for whether the man lived or not is not something that is of importance to Jewish history.
what is of importance to Jewish history is the virulent antisemitism which followed in the wake of the new movement and then religion established some 100-300 years later.
"That hatred had been planted and cultivated by Christianity since practically the beginning of the Christian movement in the first century of the Common Era. It transformed itself in violent, visceral and irrational hatred. The Christian movement accused Jews of killing Jesus and of rejecting his messianic mission. As a consequence, the Early Christians developed the concept of supersessionism in which Judaism was relegated to second plane as Christianity was replacing it. They began calling the Christian Bible the “New” Testament and the Hebrew Bible the “Old” Testament, suggesting that the Jewish religion had become superfluous.
"Despite oppression and hardship, the Jews did not disappear. This tenaciousness to survive and their continued refusal to accept Jesus as the Messiah led to an increase of Christian hatred toward Jews. The Church Fathers, whose writings make up the foundation of Christianity as we know it today, wrote about Jews in manner comparable to the Nazis. As St. Ambrose, known as the “Bishop with the Golden Tongue” said in 374 CE:
“The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous, greedy, rapacious. They are perfidious murderers of Christ. They worship the Devil. Their religion is a sickness. The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance, and the Jew must live in servitude forever. God always hated the Jews. It is essential that all Christians hate them.”
Saint John Chrysostom, bishop of Antioch, was not that much better just a few years later around 380 CE: “Where Christ-killers gather, the cross is ridiculed, God blasphemed, the father unacknowledged, the son insulted, the grace of the Spirit rejected. I am speaking of their present impiety and madness.” During the Middle Ages Christians began associating Jews with the Devil. Christian thinkers asked themselves what kind of creature would reject the truth and kill God, and concluded that only an inhuman agent of Satan could act that way."
from articleHow Christian teachings about Jews helped pave the road to the Holocaust andOverview of Christian Anti-Semitism
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-24-2023 at 07:08 PM..
no, not evidence.
just the response and view that he was not the messiah.
evidence for whether the man lived or not is not something that is of importance to Jewish history.
what is of importance to Jewish history is the virulent antisemitism which followed in the wake of the new movement and then religion established some 100-300 years later.
"That hatred had been planted and cultivated by Christianity since practically the beginning of the Christian movement in the first century of the Common Era. It transformed itself in violent, visceral and irrational hatred. The Christian movement accused Jews of killing Jesus and of rejecting his messianic mission. As a consequence, the Early Christians developed the concept of supersessionism in which Judaism was relegated to second plane as Christianity was replacing it. They began calling the Christian Bible the “New” Testament and the Hebrew Bible the “Old” Testament, suggesting that the Jewish religion had become superfluous.
"Despite oppression and hardship, the Jews did not disappear. This tenaciousness to survive and their continued refusal to accept Jesus as the Messiah led to an increase of Christian hatred toward Jews. The Church Fathers, whose writings make up the foundation of Christianity as we know it today, wrote about Jews in manner comparable to the Nazis. As St. Ambrose, known as the “Bishop with the Golden Tongue” said in 374 CE:
“The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous, greedy, rapacious. They are perfidious murderers of Christ. They worship the Devil. Their religion is a sickness. The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance, and the Jew must live in servitude forever. God always hated the Jews. It is essential that all Christians hate them.”
Saint John Chrysostom, bishop of Antioch, was not that much better just a few years later around 380 CE: “Where Christ-killers gather, the cross is ridiculed, God blasphemed, the father unacknowledged, the son insulted, the grace of the Spirit rejected. I am speaking of their present impiety and madness.” During the Middle Ages Christians began associating Jews with the Devil. Christian thinkers asked themselves what kind of creature would reject the truth and kill God, and concluded that only an inhuman agent of Satan could act that way."
from articleHow Christian teachings about Jews helped pave the road to the Holocaust
The title certainly sounds damning. Must be all that divinity.
no, not evidence.
just the response and view that he was not the messiah.
evidence for whether the man lived or not is not something that is of importance to Jewish history.
what is of importance to Jewish history is the virulent antisemitism which followed in the wake of the new movement and then religion established some 100-300 years later.
"That hatred had been planted and cultivated by Christianity since practically the beginning of the Christian movement in the first century of the Common Era. It transformed itself in violent, visceral and irrational hatred. The Christian movement accused Jews of killing Jesus and of rejecting his messianic mission. As a consequence, the Early Christians developed the concept of supersessionism in which Judaism was relegated to second plane as Christianity was replacing it. They began calling the Christian Bible the “New” Testament and the Hebrew Bible the “Old” Testament, suggesting that the Jewish religion had become superfluous.
"Despite oppression and hardship, the Jews did not disappear. This tenaciousness to survive and their continued refusal to accept Jesus as the Messiah led to an increase of Christian hatred toward Jews. The Church Fathers, whose writings make up the foundation of Christianity as we know it today, wrote about Jews in manner comparable to the Nazis. As St. Ambrose, known as the “Bishop with the Golden Tongue” said in 374 CE:
“The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous, greedy, rapacious. They are perfidious murderers of Christ. They worship the Devil. Their religion is a sickness. The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance, and the Jew must live in servitude forever. God always hated the Jews. It is essential that all Christians hate them.”
Saint John Chrysostom, bishop of Antioch, was not that much better just a few years later around 380 CE: “Where Christ-killers gather, the cross is ridiculed, God blasphemed, the father unacknowledged, the son insulted, the grace of the Spirit rejected. I am speaking of their present impiety and madness.” During the Middle Ages Christians began associating Jews with the Devil. Christian thinkers asked themselves what kind of creature would reject the truth and kill God, and concluded that only an inhuman agent of Satan could act that way."
from articleHow Christian teachings about Jews helped pave the road to the Holocaust andOverview of Christian Anti-Semitism
I'm great full for this post.
And I think..maybe..that I understand more..some more...maybe...just how much theology, theocracy..can be used for evil.
And if as a Christian, I have done anything to contribute to that evil, I beg forgiveness.
BUT I PRAY that it is not my to beloved Jesus you refer.
no, not evidence.
just the response and view that he was not the messiah.
evidence for whether the man lived or not is not something that is of importance to Jewish history.
what is of importance to Jewish history is the virulent antisemitism which followed in the wake of the new movement and then religion established some 100-300 years later.
"That hatred had been planted and cultivated by Christianity since practically the beginning of the Christian movement in the first century of the Common Era. It transformed itself in violent, visceral and irrational hatred. The Christian movement accused Jews of killing Jesus and of rejecting his messianic mission. As a consequence, the Early Christians developed the concept of supersessionism in which Judaism was relegated to second plane as Christianity was replacing it. They began calling the Christian Bible the “New” Testament and the Hebrew Bible the “Old” Testament, suggesting that the Jewish religion had become superfluous.
"Despite oppression and hardship, the Jews did not disappear. This tenaciousness to survive and their continued refusal to accept Jesus as the Messiah led to an increase of Christian hatred toward Jews. The Church Fathers, whose writings make up the foundation of Christianity as we know it today, wrote about Jews in manner comparable to the Nazis. As St. Ambrose, known as the “Bishop with the Golden Tongue” said in 374 CE:
“The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous, greedy, rapacious. They are perfidious murderers of Christ. They worship the Devil. Their religion is a sickness. The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance, and the Jew must live in servitude forever. God always hated the Jews. It is essential that all Christians hate them.”
Saint John Chrysostom, bishop of Antioch, was not that much better just a few years later around 380 CE: “Where Christ-killers gather, the cross is ridiculed, God blasphemed, the father unacknowledged, the son insulted, the grace of the Spirit rejected. I am speaking of their present impiety and madness.” During the Middle Ages Christians began associating Jews with the Devil. Christian thinkers asked themselves what kind of creature would reject the truth and kill God, and concluded that only an inhuman agent of Satan could act that way."
from articleHow Christian teachings about Jews helped pave the road to the Holocaust andOverview of Christian Anti-Semitism
Does anti-semitism begin only after or did it exist prior to Christianity?
“Hostility against Jews may date back nearly as far as Jewish history. In the ancient empires of Babylonia, Greece, and Rome, Jews—who originated in the ancient kingdom of Judea—were often criticized and persecuted for their efforts to remain a separate cultural group rather than taking on the religious and social customs of their conquerors.”
There seem to be competing ideas being discussed. One is that religion, such as Christianity, is responsible for teaching hate, which in this case Christianity brought hate upon the Jewish people. The other is that religion doesn't teach things like that. It is people who do people things like hate or teach hate.
But I don't think the two have to compete. Instead, I would look for a relationship which would be that people use religion as a vehicle to influence others.
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