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you as an adult have free choice and make dozens or hundreds of choices every day.
and are responsible for your thought, speech, action, and feelings.
for a person to say they are not, is abdicating taking responsibility for what they say, what they think, what they do, and what they feel.
Something caused him to shoot people, and, it was really strange actions that he did. The tumor on his brain very well could have been related, yeah. I don't know, but I know that the brain, of course, is what determines our actions. And he had a tumor interfering with his.
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According to your philosophy, it wouldn't matter anyway since the lack of free will means things could have happened no other way. The tumor could not have been detected in advance. He would not have had the choice to see a doctor beforehand and discover the problem. Or else he would have. Right?
Of course. Yes, what happened was what happened. The point would be to increase our knowledge and understanding, in order to try to make the world a better place in the future, etc. And more compassionate. In the old days before autopsies, there wouldn't have even been any concept of a brain tumor, and 'evil spirits' or whatever other religious crap would probably be blamed, as it was for half the things in society.
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And how about all the shooters who don't have brain tumors?
Well, did you study all of their childhoods/genetics/environment, everything that went into their actions? Those are among all of the things that make us who we are. We're not some magical beings, that can somehow be, or know things that we would have no capability of being, or knowing.
It's not that someone is not responsible for their actions, it's that the 'someone' itself is more of a conceptual entity. In terms of that concept of 'self', the person is responsible for their actions. But everything that caused those actions is determined/random, because there's nothing that makes us up that's not part of the physical universe, just like any other particle is.
Of course. Yes, what happened was what happened. The point would be to increase our knowledge and understanding, in order to try to make the world a better place in the future, etc. And more compassionate. In the old days before autopsies, there wouldn't have even been any concept of a brain tumor, and 'evil spirits' or whatever other religious crap would probably be blamed, as it was for half the things in society.
You're missing the point. If there were no free will, there would be no real choice, and if there were no choice, we could not make anyone or anything change.
Yet we have done exactly that, a point you have ironically just made.
People can "learn" anything they want but the still have to **choose** whether **or not** to change. They have to use their free will, in other words.
OR, as you said, it would have to be random. And your example above of systematic investigation leaves "random" well out of the equation.
You're missing the point. If there were no free will, there would be no real choice, and if there were no choice, we could not make anyone or anything change.
The choices do occur, but the point is that we are not the conscious authors of our choices. They arise from our subconscious. Within our consciousness, we are actually more like, viewing the choices, that have already been made, within our brains. That's why free will is an illusion. We often feel like we're making a choice. In a sense, we are. But, it's not actually originating in the conscious mind.
They've actually scientifically studied this. They found that your brain has already determined what you will do, before you are even aware of it:
What's going to be your next decision, JerZ? What's going to be the next thing that you choose to do, right now?
Well, considering that, you did not pick your parents or anything about any circumstances about your birth. Most of your life experiences were not your choice, and surely those weigh into who you are, and your choices. Your genetic makeup, and the way that your brain developed, you had no choice or control over that.
Every event that has occurred so far in your life and experience, every interaction with everyone else you've ever had, and every idea that you've been exposed to, etc.
So where does the freedom part come in? Your next actions will be determined by some combination of all of these things. Your will, that is what will act, but not actually 'freely' as in the concept of 'free will'.
actually you did pick your parents. and your gender, and your race and your culture and your physical attributes and DNA and genetic makeup, all of it. it was all your choice. chosen by you before your were physically born.
actually you did pick your parents. and your gender, and your race and your culture and your physical attributes, all of it.
all of that was your choice. chosen by you before your were physically born.
see, not everyone holds the belief you do that everything is pre-determined and there is no free choice.
if you are calling other beliefs "total nonsense"
then surely you recognize how some might similarly call your own beliefs "total nonsense."
"blame the brain" and "blame quantum randomness" sounds to me like saying humans do not have free choice and everything is pre-determined. i disagree with that beilef.
No, it isn't. Because you have no evidence which demonstrates that claim.
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see, not everyone holds the belief you do that everything is pre-determined and there is no free choice.
Well it's more like I'm accepting of the reality of that, as fact, which is what is supported, by all the evidence.
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"blame the brain" and "blame quantum randomness" sounds to me like saying humans do not have free choice and everything is pre-determined.
Everything that occurs is determined, or maybe a product of some kind of quantum randomness, yes. Our brains are made up of particles just like everything else in the universe. The experience of our consciousness exists, and our choices exist, but our conscious mind is not what is ultimately causing those actions. They're caused by all the prior factors that caused them to be the chosen actions, including any limitations that we would have no capability of controlling or being able to do or choose. Our minds don't exist in a vacuum.
No, it isn't. Because you have no evidence which demonstrates that claim. Well it's more like I'm accepting of the reality of that, as fact, which is what is supported, by all the evidence. Everything that occurs is determined, or maybe a product of some kind of quantum randomness, yes. Our brains are made up of particles just like everything else in the universe. The experience of our consciousness exists, and our choices exist, but our conscious mind is not what is ultimately causing those actions. They're caused by all the prior factors that caused them to be the chosen actions, including any limitations that we would have no capability of controlling or being able to do or choose. Our minds don't exist in a vacuum.
and this is a forum for anyone to express their opinions, views, and beliefs. such as the post above has done. and for people to disagree and hold different views opinions and beliefs. which readers have also done.
also, no it is not a "fact" that everything is predetermined. that is a belief, opinion, view.
and this is a forum for anyone to express their opinions, views, and beliefs. such as the post above has done. and for people to disagree and hold different views opinions and beliefs. which readers have also done.
also, no it is not a "fact" that everything is predetermined. that is a belief, opinion, view.
Your post here is "a belief, opinion, view".
I don't understand what you think the substance of REPEATEDLY making that same kind of comment involves.
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