Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not really. I mean, I know it sounds extreme in a way, and people don't want to face the implications, which are that we're responsible for the basic circumstances of our lives, but what Tzaph said is what some NDE survivors have said. I know, sure, you can write off the "testimony" of the NDE survivors. But...it doesn't seem to be complete nonsense. If I may throw in my 2 cents...
But...aren't we off-topic, anyway? lol Thread has meandered.
of insufficient importance to document.
he is not a figure in Jewish history.
But, according to another poster, he was important enough, that someone had him and a half-dozen disciples of his stoned to death. I don't know if the source of that piece of info was a document of those times, or some history text that was written later.
But, according to another poster, he was important enough, that someone had him and a half-dozen disciples of his stoned to death.
then that other poster (an atheist) can provide sources.
and pay particular attention to what year they were written, which "Jewish historians" wrote them, and the reliability of the sources.
this will be interesting (and entertaining) to see what is produced. because the references he's alluded to thus far were written 500, 600, 900 years later.
[insert here the popcorn icon from Trout]
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-27-2023 at 07:07 PM..
Is this true? I'm an atheist, but I've always considered Jesus "a figure" in history. I thought it was that Jews simply didn't believe Jesus to be a deity. Just like atheists don't. But he remains a figure in human history far as most people are concerned. Even far as atheists and many Jewish people are concerned. Right? If I am right, then your statement should be that Jesus is not a figure in history far as YOU are concerned.
so then you believe in the existence of something for which (a) there is no evidence at all except what is written in the Bible or hearsay well after the person died; and (b) because it is "a figure in human history far as most people are concerned."
interesting. just like many people believe in God because it is written in the Bible and is a figure in human history as far as most people are concerned.
sounds like those are acceptable criteria for you, and that you are just fine believing in something because it is written in the Bible or second hand accounts (anectdotes), and because "most people" believe it. those are acceptable criteria for you to hold a belief. so i guess scientific evidence is not needed for you to believe in the existence of something after all.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-27-2023 at 09:41 PM..
so then you believe in the existence of something for which (a) there is no evidence at all except what is written in the Bible; and (b) because it is "a figure in human history far as most people are concerned."
interesting. just like many people believe in God because it is written in the Bible and is a figure in human history as far as most people are concerned.
sounds like those are acceptable criteria for you, and that you are just fine believing in something because it is written in the Bible, and because "most people" believe it. those are acceptable criteria for you to hold a belief. so i guess scientific evidence is not needed for you to believe in the existence of something after all.
There is a difference in believing in something and saying something is fact.
There is a difference in believing in something and saying something is fact.
LM claims that science establishes "what is true."
there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that the human LM is referencing existed.
Much of the "historic evidence" is questioned because either accounts were written later, or because documents were altered.
however LM claims the human is a "figure in history."
LM also claims that only science can establish what is "the truth."
so it is interesting to see that LM believes in the existence of something based on what the Bible says about it, and because in his view "most people do."
(notwithstanding that "A 2015 Church of England survey found that four in 10 people did not believe Jesus was a real person." And a 2021 survey found that "less than half of all Australians believe Jesus was a real historical person.")
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-27-2023 at 09:12 PM..
LM claims that science establishes "what is true."
there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that the human LM is referencing existed.
Much of the "historic evidence" is questioned because either accounts were written much later, or because documents were altered.
however LM claims the human is a "figure in history." LM also claims that only science can establish what is "the truth."
so it is interesting to see that LM believes in the existence of something based on what the Bible says about it, and because in his view "most people do."
(notwithstanding that "A 2015 Church of England survey found that four in 10 people did not believe Jesus was a real person." And a 2021 survey found that "less than half of all Australians believe Jesus was a real historical person.")
I want to examine one part of your post.
I bolded it.
Where does he actually say that? Because...I disagree with him...if he said it. But I want you to show me where he said that.
I want to examine one part of your post. I bolded it. Where does he actually say that? Because...I disagree with him...if he said it. But I want you to show me where he said that.
I want to examine one part of your post.
I bolded it. Where does he actually say that? Because...I disagree with him...if he said it. But I want you to show me where he said that.
LM states, "Science is the most universally accepted effort to arrive at truth with no agenda other than greater knowledge and understanding of universal truth for all human beings. This path or quest of scientific discovery offers the way to peace."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
