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This little sub-thread began when Arach said, "if I list only the bad that you do. Is that a proper/fair way to judge you?" And what I'm pointing out is that we have to look at the whole person. And this reminds me of funerals I have gone to when someone gives the eulogy and suddenly this "very human" man or woman is remembered as having been a living saint.
I don't want to judge people based on the good they do while ignoring the bad. I don't want to judge people based on the bad they do while ignoring the good. I want to take a look at the whole person -- the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Fair enough. Seems we're landing in a little bit of a different spot from considering someone based on the worst they've done, but nuff said I suppose. No real good reason to ignore anything of consequence in any case. Not sure we need to look that horse in the mouth any further, but that's a horse of a different color altogether from where this "little sub-thread began," and/or went astray.
To cut down on the stink of putrefying flesh. And to protect the corpse from being preyed upon by animals.
That's an easy one. God(s) "explained" phenomena that our primitive ancestors couldn't understand. Lightning crashed and volcanoes erupted and floods occurred because the god(s) were angry. Rainbows and good harvests were because the god(s) were pleased.
"Dark matter is a form of matter thought to account for approximately 85% of the matter in the universe and about a quarter of its total energy density or about. kg per cubic meter."
Again, what am I missing? Or is this another trick question?
I'd also say it's past time for me to sign off now...
no trick. Again you are answering exactly the way it should be answered. As expected I might add.
about the only clearly less valid answers are things like ...
"there is nothing there.".
"I don't haven't see any credible evidence that there is anything there."
"I didn't say there is anything there so I don't have to prove a thing."
I'm not sure your observation is entirely accurate...
I've got a dog getting up in her years, for example, and there is no question she isn't the dog she used to be. Fortunately there doesn't seem to be any real suffering going on, but she can't run like she used to. Can't see or hear like she used to and no doubt she probably wouldn't be around if she were in the wild at this point rather than domesticated, but how long animals endure disability before they die is simply all relative. They may suffer from a disability or injury for less time than we humans are likely to suffer from the same sort of thing, but also of course their life span is typically shorter than ours. Especially birds, but the larger animals are slower to go as a rule. So it's somewhat relative.
Doesn't really answer your question about why we humans have to endure all we do at the end of the line, however. Does seem a bit much and a bit too long all considered, but part of the answer is how we have come to extend our lives as a result of better living conditions, better medicine, better health care, better drugs and a whole lot of "help" we get today that we didn't get back when old age hardly got us past our forties.
Believe me I know as my dad in his eighties suffered from serious Alzheimer's the last three years of his life while the rest of us in the family suffered along with...
When we consider the hierarchy of the animal kingdom from the smallest and simplest to the largest and most complex we would see this innate knowledge of age and impending death taking over. Elephants go to an elephant graveyard when they sense their end is coming. I don't doubt apes slow down and stop climbing trees as they enter the winter of their existence. Birds would have no idea and continue flying right up until they drop out of the air. Even an old dog doesn't get up and run after a ball anymore.
we see people saying "how do we know" or "we don't know for sure". that is true.
If they would listen, they would see that a claim with a mechanism is more valid than a claim without a mechanism. Its that simple and it really ends the discussion. denying everything is not making a statement.
when people deny everything, the rest of us are left with looking at what on the table. Militant atheism wants everything off of the table. They don't want us looking at anything or they are focusing "doubt". and obviously, Fundy theism is what it is.
we really don't even has to mess with the odds of a plane forming for a tornado.
we don't know how we got here
we don'y know the what we are evolving into
we don't know why we are here.
but we are here now and we can describe the system we are in.
A scientifically accepted classification for objects/things is life,non life, virus. its scientifically acceptable.
its also a very general classification. if we classify the system we are in as one of them does that offer a mechanism and make predictions to see what we see people saying in terms of god/anti-god?
What types of classifications do we have that are more general? and can we use them?
I say, "I don't know" all the time. I have no idea why we are here or how we got here. For all I know an alien civilization billions of years old seeded this planet with life. It wouldn't change my stance that something caused this diverse chain of life to start up. When calculating the odds of life evolving from two molecules coming together all the way to 1 trillion lives of all species coming into existence and working symbiotically so beautifully to keep our world going I cannot agree it all happened in one grand coincidence.
All I know, like you do, is that we....are....here. Our biology is complex--our immune system alone performs thousands of functions per day that keep bacteria and viruses from overwhelming us. Our livers make thousands of complex enzymes to react to anything we put into our bodies to keep it from poisoning itself. This stuff didn't come about by accident. The odds against it are too overwhelming.
So I say...SOMETHING caused us to happen. I don't know what. But IF it was God, then far as suffering goes He's doing a lousy job of taking care of His creation. In fact...He's not doing any job at all.
When we consider the hierarchy of the animal kingdom from the smallest and simplest to the largest and most complex we would see this innate knowledge of age and impending death taking over. Elephants go to an elephant graveyard when they sense their end is coming. I don't doubt apes slow down and stop climbing trees as they enter the winter of their existence. Birds would have no idea and continue flying right up until they drop out of the air. Even an old dog doesn't get up and run after a ball anymore.
ok, so we put the sick in a spot and let nature do its thing(s). I can't say i am totally apposed.
I say, "I don't know" all the time. I have no idea why we are here or how we got here. For all I know an alien civilization billions of years old seeded this planet with life. It wouldn't change my stance that something caused this diverse chain of life to start up. When calculating the odds of life evolving from two molecules coming together all the way to 1 trillion lives of all species coming into existence and working symbiotically so beautifully to keep our world going I cannot agree it all happened in one grand coincidence.
All I know, like you do, is that we....are....here. Our biology is complex--our immune system alone performs thousands of functions per day that keep us healthy. Our livers perform thousands of chemical reactions with making thousands of complex enzymes to react to anything we put into our bodies. This stuff didn't come about by accident. The odds against it are too overwhelming.
So I say...SOMETHING caused us to happen. I don't know what. But IF it was God, then He's doing a lousy job of taking care of His creation. In fact...He's not doing any job at all.
"but if it was god he did a lousy job."
or
"if it was god it could only do what it could do."
or
"if it made us it loves us so much it made us perfect"
to me this is stupid simple. lets look at the mechanisms and see what one makes the most sense.
Fair enough. Seems we're landing in a little bit of a different spot from considering someone based on the worst they've done, but nuff said I suppose. No real good reason to ignore anything of consequence in any case. Not sure we need to look that horse in the mouth any further, but that's a horse of a different color altogether from where this "little sub-thread began," and/or went astray.
I think you misunderstood my initial post.
In it, I simply said, that I had heard it said that...
I didn't endorse that. I said it as a prod to further conversation.
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