Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (atheist, agnostic, quote)
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Is that the 'evil' God of the Bible that atheists say they 'lack belief in'?
I don't have a bias against everything you say. You do nothing but blaspheme my God on a Religion and Spirituality forum and I push back. Maybe try not doing that and see if it makes it easier for us to have a friendly conversation? Just a thought.
Nothing friendly about your last post. Just a thought.
But if you're will to have a friendly conversation, even civil debate with me my ears are always open. Ball's in your court.
Edit And I just reread your post and realized I misinterpreted it. Your complaint is that I insult and malign your god. You should try to have thicker skin about that. I call God what I think He is. You call him loving, I see no love coming out of Him at all. That's where we disagree. If you want to talk about it make a peace offering. Or don't. Like I said, ball's in your court.
The category mistake is in assessing the reality in which we live by the standards of what I or you, as finite human beings, think we would have created if we'd been a transcendent creator. We have no idea what ultimate reality may look like from the eternal God-level. It is impossible for us to step out of our finite human frame of reference.
But we can only ever assess reality by what we know. To claim a god is transcendent is not a category error, it is an excuse to make things up as you go along. All you are doing is moving your god outside of testability, including the existence of a god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle
Theists believe there are many good (in fact, compelling) reasons to believe in theism notwithstanding the Problem of Evil. Those of us who believe, notwithstanding the Problem of Evil, have no choice but to trust that there is an adequate explanation for the Problem of Evil at the God-level. The vast majority of philosophers now accept that the Problem of Evil is not a defeater for theism or even for a belief in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God.
Perhaps that says more about the vast majority of philosophers than it does the problem of evil, which logically can not exist with an all powerful, all knowing, all loving god.
Because it wouldn't make sense for God to have the power to intelligently design a universe, plus people, and not have the power to design them in such a way that there is no suffering.
Is it possible for suffering to serve a purpose?
I believe so...
If only I knew the mind of your god as much as you do.
Is that the 'evil' God of the Bible that atheists say they 'lack belief in'?
I don't have a bias against everything you say. You do nothing but blaspheme my God on a Religion and Spirituality forum and I push back. Maybe try not doing that and see if it makes it easier for us to have a friendly conversation? Just a thought.
I am going to say this but keep in mind, a person can't blaspheme your god. Thats like a 5 year old blaspheming a parent.
as an atheist. we side with people against religion because they are against religion. We feel that "just get out of their way because we are on the same team and end in the same place" is more beneficial, for personal practical reasons, like stopping religion because it is so dangerous.
smarter people see the logic in that. smart people understand why that is the best way to operate.
Yeah, exactly. It's about perception. I have no proof God is an a-hole just as the iron curtain gang had no definitive proof we Americans are a-holes. They just looked at our behavior and interpreted it. Just as I am looking at God's behavior and interpreting that.
if I list only the bad that you do. Is that a proper/fair way to judge you?
"using the term [atheism] a little less rigidly" is a bit of an understatement when you're making up your own meaning for a word. If you are that lax in holding to a word's actual definition then it's futile for someone to try to reason with you at all.
Yours is the most confused worldview I've ever encountered. Congrats!
and, I say, theist do it too.
so how can we get around that both atheist and theist are doing the same thing? How do we determine reliability of what some theist are saying and what some atheist are saying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irkle Berserkle The category mistake is in assessing the reality in which we live by the standards of what I or you, as finite human beings, think we would have created if we'd been a transcendent creator. We have no idea what ultimate reality may look like from the eternal God-level. It is impossible for us to step out of our finite human frame of reference.
We down here, certainly not myself, couldn't care less about God's perspective of things. What we care about is the widespread evil we have to live with down here on earth, God's perspective of things be damned. If He wants to put His perspective to good use why not come down here and see the what we're living with and do something about it instead of just sitting on His great holy hands or twiddling His thumbs.
if I list only the bad that you do. Is that a proper/fair way to judge you?
I think you're implying that God, if He is real, does good stuff. That a mistake from my perspective. God doesn't do good, He doesn't do bad. He doesn't do a damn thing. But He made this world initially and then He set up a flawed system of operation which broke it. He's responsible for the mess He made down here because He set up the system which helps all the evil and mayhem down here to thrive and perpetuate. The He goes AWOL leaving us to clean up HIS mess. So as a deist I don't expect God to do a blessed thing just like I don't expect a deadbeat dad to step up to their responsibility. "Expect" is a tricky word. When I say I don't expect God to step up I mean I don't hold my breath waiting for Him to because I know He won't. But I do "expect" Him to fix things in the sense that I would hold Him responsible for taking care of what He broke. That's what I mean when I use the word, "expect". I don't expect Him to but I do expect Him to.
But we can only ever assess reality by what we know. To claim a god is transcendent is not a category error, it is an excuse to make things up as you go along. All you are doing is moving your god outside of testability, including the existence of a god.
We possess a transcendence over the laws of this Reality because we have a consciousness and an imagination unconstrained by the laws of this Reality. That is sufficient evidence that transcendence is real. In my view, God's consciousness is the unified field that establishes our Reality and its laws so God's transcendence over them is understandable.
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