Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (atheist, quote, faith)
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I just came from my Space and God thread where I just explained the same thing to the same individual. Thanks.
Now we who are ignoring anything. Just this same individual ignoring all efforts to explain the difference between what is fact and what is personal opinion, personal experience. Now we see who continues to ignore who...
You don’t think God exists. Is that fact or just your personal opinion?
Are there any atheists here who will concede that their experiences with and disdain for the God portrayed in their initial experiences were instrumental in their rejection of any God concept? I think that is what Thrill is alluding to.
Can't speak for all atheists, and I prefer not to, but I for one can tell you I had nothing but good experiences with God when I was thinking I was having experiences with God. No bad experiences or disdain whatsoever! I simply began questioning what I thought I was experiencing in more of a critical thinking fashion. I couldn't help but do so as I got older. Ultimately over time I became an atheist as a result. No hard feelings with God whatsoever. Seems He's just not there is all...
I have witnessed creatures in the wild, birds specifically that carry on as though they are still young. Then just drop dead. We had this half bald and grey feathered blackbird, as spritely as can be. Then was no more. I've seen a sparrow, same thing. Then it came hopping into the house at full speed, hid in a dark place and died. You just don't see old birds acting old. For them it's very quick.
So why so slow and painful for us humans? Other animals do slow down as they age and often get taken out as prey.
I'm not sure your observation is entirely accurate...
I've got a dog getting up in her years, for example, and there is no question she isn't the dog she used to be. Fortunately there doesn't seem to be any real suffering going on, but she can't run like she used to. Can't see or hear like she used to and no doubt she probably wouldn't be around if she were in the wild at this point rather than domesticated, but how long animals endure disability before they die is simply all relative. They may suffer from a disability or injury for less time than we humans are likely to suffer from the same sort of thing, but also of course their life span is typically shorter than ours. Especially birds, but the larger animals are slower to go as a rule. So it's somewhat relative.
Doesn't really answer your question about why we humans have to endure all we do at the end of the line, however. Does seem a bit much and a bit too long all considered, but part of the answer is how we have come to extend our lives as a result of better living conditions, better medicine, better health care, better drugs and a whole lot of "help" we get today that we didn't get back when old age hardly got us past our forties.
Believe me I know as my dad in his eighties suffered from serious Alzheimer's the last three years of his life while the rest of us in the family suffered along with...
I'm not actually basing it on a god thing. To me it smacks of no designer or creator involved - which is my position. But if it were the result of a designer/creator then I would be asking serious questions regarding its competence and motives.
Agreed.
More often than not I question our competence and motives when speculating about a God and what He/She would do or not do as if we've got a clue about such things...
NO, no difference to me. This Higher Entity whatever it is is NOT the Christian god for which I use a small "g" because the Christian god is Yahweh who I have demonstrated is a pagan god from the Sumerian religion from which the Hebrews derived. I don't have concrete evidence for God/Higher Entity. For me something caused this universe to come into existence. I don't concentrate on that aspect so much as what we see here on earth where the biodiversity is SO varied and synergy between these animal, plant and mineral kingdoms are SO astonishing as to push the odds of all this happening by chance out of the realm of possibility. I once quoted the odds of what we see happening around us which I got from an article I once read as something along the lines of 10 to the 253rd power. That's impossible. Couldn't happen anymore than a tornado assembling an aircraft carrier from a junkyard.
Okay. Thanks. I understand the "higher entity" to be no different for you than God. Roger that...
This further rationale of yours gets us back to your proof of God simply because how things have come to be is over your head. Frankly, this strikes me as being awfully impressed with yourself, what you can know and understand such that what you can't know or understand must be the work of some "higher entity" or God. That or you simply can't know or understand enough to recognize possibility(s) that are not necessarily the work of a higher entity or God.
Interesting "sticking point" for me that you keep bringing up. Insisting upon. Comparing what has been going on in the universe for billions of years to a tornado assembling an aircraft carrier demonstrates where your thinking begins and ends. Very poor comparison or analogy in any case for more than just a few reasons.
I think it better to consider our relatively short history as humans and all the many ways we similarly (and wrongly) attributed natural processes to "higher entities" and why. Earthquakes, volcanoes, thunder and lightening, plagues, floods. We were so convinced of a higher entity not so long ago so as to even offer sacrifices to appease these higher entities! All because we simply could not accept what we did not understand as other than a god. Not that you are still inclined to do such ridiculous things, but you are still thinking the way we used to when we simply didn't know better, for the same backward reasons. Don't you see?
if I list the all the traits of a tree and call it god. Do you say there is no god? Is saying, based on that list, that "there is no god." is the best we have?
Ugh...
Do as you must I suppose, but I list all the traits of a tree and call it a tree!
Can't speak for all atheists, and I prefer not to, but I for one can tell you I had nothing but good experiences with God when I was thinking I was having experiences with God. No bad experiences or disdain whatsoever! I simply began questioning what I thought I was experiencing in more of a critical thinking fashion. I couldn't help but do so as I got older. Ultimately over time I became an atheist as a result. No hard feelings with God whatsoever. Seems He's just not there is all...
I think it better to consider our relatively short history as humans and all the many ways we similarly (and wrongly) attributed natural processes to "higher entities" and why. Earthquakes, volcanoes, thunder and lightening, plagues, floods. We were so convinced of a higher entity not so long ago so as to even offer sacrifices to appease these higher entities! All because we simply could not accept what we did not understand as other than a god.Not that you are still inclined to do such ridiculous things, but you are still thinking the way we used to when we simply didn't know better, for the same backward reasons. Don't you see?
...or, because our ancestors (that is, the Neanderthals, etc.) DID understand that there IS God.
Where did the earliest humans get the notion that their own kind should be buried?
Where did the whole idea of God come from in the first place?
Because I KNOW it wasn't from the Sumerians....It was WELL BEFORE that.
Do as you must I suppose, but I list all the traits of a tree and call it a tree!
exactly ... we can talk about using the word god. But can't ignore the tree is there and it is all natural. Now for religion and spirituality we need to talk about things that are less clear.
Lets use dark matter as an example. based on the observations what would you say is there?
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