Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (birth control, nuns, gays)
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Indeed. We also notice that we have drifted of the (broad) topic of the problem of evil onto claiming buy -into personal experiences as valid reasons for belief.
the problem of evil means there is a problem of good. Only an emotional attachment to "there is no deity because we deem your deity evil." can lead to a rejection of it.
and of course it morph's in taking a deeper look into why people believe what they do. Thats why you run away from this cowboy.
we don't care who you are. All we do is look at what you say. "rejection of all god claims based on how you feel religion is dangerous" is pig slop. Thats why you run away from that. you know your position will not hold up in a room full of rational, less emotional, people.
thats why "questioning other atheist is embarrassing to you." because some atheist are embarrassing.
we noticed, but its from behind the curtain so it ok. they have all the right answers. after all, anti-religion means they help us stop Christians in america so we need them.
since when is it about comparing what people say with what we know? when we do that, the facts just don't add up for some so they think "dehumanizing" the person equals the playing field. and when that doesn't work, just shun. finally, when this ship reaches its destination, kill all those that have different view points.
too many people are choosing sides based on a statement of belief about god (yes/no) and not looking at how the inverse works and evaluating the claim itself.
My real question, is why do some rational believers and non believers think its ok not to address anti-god based on anit-religion? how is a belief that Christianity is dangerous justification for "just let them by"?
mystic is a great example. its not about what he is saying at all. He is crystal clear that its personal. He is crystal clear where his science is not supported. But he has a bunch that is supported. so much so that it had to be shunned.
and rational people sit by the way side and don't stand up. Is it because Christianity is so bad we have do to anything, say anything, side with anybody, no matter what?
Well, I have said numerous times that religion, be it Christianity or any other, can be helpful and perhaps even beautiful to certain people as long as it stays a personal choice, a personal belief. What completely and forever demolished religion as a positive force for the human condition is when it became organized, political, and authoritarian. Once religion organized itself, it then had the power to *force* everyone else to conform.
Religion places absolutely NO value upon the rights of others. If that weren't bad enough, religious hypocrisy even extends to the point where Christians will loudly proclaim that our "inalienable" rights were given to us by God while simultaneously saying we do NOT have the right to practice whatever religion we choose - or no religion at all. How many times have I crossed swords with Christians on this forum who proclaimed that we do not have protection FROM religion - we only have protection OF religion? Dozens? Hundreds?
Left to its own devices, religion even in America would revert back to its original authoritarian zealotry. In the hundreds of arguments I've had with Christians, I have seen the cracks being chiseled into our freedoms - freedom of religion, freedom of speech, the Establishment Clause and, perhaps most important of all - the freedom to think for ourselves and make up our own minds which religion to choose or to not choose one at all. Mystic only has his opinions on religion because he has the right to express them; there is a frightening swathe of the American population who would sleep soundly at night if all negative speech against Christianity was outlawed and if all other religions were banned within the boundaries of the USA.
I can't even count the number of times - or the number of Christians - on this forum alone who told me that I have no right to even post here because I'm an atheist. Because I don't venerate their particular God, I am not allowed a seat at the table of religious discussion. I am only allowed to watch in mute silence. So much for the beauty and benevolence of religion - a paradigm that teaches people who to hate, who to murder, who to practice their bigotry against, who to exclude from society at large.
I don't think God is evil. I think religion is evil. A small percentage of good people practicing an evil religion doesn't change religion's true nature.
Well, I have said numerous times that religion, be it Christianity or any other, can be helpful and perhaps even beautiful to certain people as long as it stays a personal choice, a personal belief. What completely and forever demolished religion as a positive force for the human condition is when it became organized, political, and authoritarian. Once religion organized itself, it then had the power to *force* everyone else to conform.
Religion places absolutely NO value upon the rights of others. If that weren't bad enough, religious hypocrisy even extends to the point where Christians will loudly proclaim that our "inalienable" rights were given to us by God while simultaneously saying we do NOT have the right to practice whatever religion we choose - or no religion at all. How many times have I crossed swords with Christians on this forum who proclaimed that we do not have protection FROM religion - we only have protection OF religion? Dozens? Hundreds?
Left to its own devices, religion even in America would revert back to its original authoritarian zealotry. In the hundreds of arguments I've had with Christians, I have seen the cracks being chiseled into our freedoms - freedom of religion, freedom of speech, the Establishment Clause and, perhaps most important of all - the freedom to think for ourselves and make up our own minds which religion to choose or to not choose one at all. Mystic only has his opinions on religion because he has the right to express them; there is a frightening swathe of the American population who would sleep soundly at night if all negative speech against Christianity was outlawed and if all other religions were banned within the boundaries of the USA.
I can't even count the number of times - or the number of Christians - on this forum alone who told me that I have no right to even post here because I'm an atheist. Because I don't venerate their particular God, I am not allowed a seat at the table of religious discussion. I am only allowed to watch in mute silence. So much for the beauty and benevolence of religion - a paradigm that teaches people who to hate, who to murder, who to practice their bigotry against, who to exclude from society at large.
I don't think God is evil. I think religion is evil. A small percentage of good people practicing an evil religion doesn't change religion's true nature.
If that’s happen to you countless times, then link to a couple good examples of being told you have no right to post on this forum. I’m not saying it’s never happened but your claim sounds like an out-of-context exaggeration to me. Let's see a specific example of what you’re referring to.
Well, I have said numerous times that religion, be it Christianity or any other, can be helpful and perhaps even beautiful to certain people as long as it stays a personal choice, a personal belief. What completely and forever demolished religion as a positive force for the human condition is when it became organized, political, and authoritarian. Once religion organized itself, it then had the power to *force* everyone else to conform.
Religion places absolutely NO value upon the rights of others. If that weren't bad enough, religious hypocrisy even extends to the point where Christians will loudly proclaim that our "inalienable" rights were given to us by God while simultaneously saying we do NOT have the right to practice whatever religion we choose - or no religion at all. How many times have I crossed swords with Christians on this forum who proclaimed that we do not have protection FROM religion - we only have protection OF religion? Dozens? Hundreds?
Left to its own devices, religion even in America would revert back to its original authoritarian zealotry. In the hundreds of arguments I've had with Christians, I have seen the cracks being chiseled into our freedoms - freedom of religion, freedom of speech, the Establishment Clause and, perhaps most important of all - the freedom to think for ourselves and make up our own minds which religion to choose or to not choose one at all. Mystic only has his opinions on religion because he has the right to express them; there is a frightening swathe of the American population who would sleep soundly at night if all negative speech against Christianity was outlawed and if all other religions were banned within the boundaries of the USA.
I can't even count the number of times - or the number of Christians - on this forum alone who told me that I have no right to even post here because I'm an atheist. Because I don't venerate their particular God, I am not allowed a seat at the table of religious discussion. I am only allowed to watch in mute silence. So much for the beauty and benevolence of religion - a paradigm that teaches people who to hate, who to murder, who to practice their bigotry against, who to exclude from society at large.
I don't think God is evil. I think religion is evil. A small percentage of good people practicing an evil religion doesn't change religion's true nature.
and I say fundy theist and militant atheism is evil. (not evil, I am just using your word). How about atheist that tell me I am an embarrassment to atheism ... that atheist shouldn't question other atheists?
Well, I have said numerous times that religion, be it Christianity or any other, can be helpful and perhaps even beautiful to certain people as long as it stays a personal choice, a personal belief. What completely and forever demolished religion as a positive force for the human condition is when it became organized, political, and authoritarian. Once religion organized itself, it then had the power to *force* everyone else to conform.
Religion places absolutely NO value upon the rights of others. If that weren't bad enough, religious hypocrisy even extends to the point where Christians will loudly proclaim that our "inalienable" rights were given to us by God while simultaneously saying we do NOT have the right to practice whatever religion we choose - or no religion at all. How many times have I crossed swords with Christians on this forum who proclaimed that we do not have protection FROM religion - we only have protection OF religion? Dozens? Hundreds?
Left to its own devices, religion even in America would revert back to its original authoritarian zealotry. In the hundreds of arguments I've had with Christians, I have seen the cracks being chiseled into our freedoms - freedom of religion, freedom of speech, the Establishment Clause and, perhaps most important of all - the freedom to think for ourselves and make up our own minds which religion to choose or to not choose one at all. Mystic only has his opinions on religion because he has the right to express them; there is a frightening swathe of the American population who would sleep soundly at night if all negative speech against Christianity was outlawed and if all other religions were banned within the boundaries of the USA.
I can't even count the number of times - or the number of Christians - on this forum alone who told me that I have no right to even post here because I'm an atheist. Because I don't venerate their particular God, I am not allowed a seat at the table of religious discussion. I am only allowed to watch in mute silence. So much for the beauty and benevolence of religion - a paradigm that teaches people who to hate, who to murder, who to practice their bigotry against, who to exclude from society at large.
I don't think God is evil. I think religion is evil. A small percentage of good people practicing an evil religion doesn't change religion's true nature.
Excellent post. One of your best!
My advice to christians is to stop trying to sell their religion, and it's often a hard sell. Stop sounding like carnival barkers and used car salesmen. Talk about principles, not "religion".
There was a couple I knew quite well in Colorado Springs. The husband, in particular, was a good-deed-doer. A regular deliverer of Meals On Wheels. Volunteered at the downtown soup kitchen on a regular basis. I would run into him often at various charitable endeavors. I knew the couple for 9 years. I was to their house for dinner and cards once or twice a year, as they were at my house. After 9 years of knowing them, I still have no idea which christian faith he was a part of. He didn't wear his religion on his sleeve. He was a do-er, not a talker. I respected him as a christian regardless of what brand of christian he was. He just did good things for people without any effort to preach or persuade.
If that’s happen to you countless times, then link to a couple good examples of being told you have no right to post on this forum. I’m not saying it’s never happened but your claim sounds like an out-of-context exaggeration to me. Let's see a specific example of what you’re referring to.
Come on now. Do you really expect another poster to sift through dozens of threads and hundreds of posts to find such a comment? You know better.
It is not an exaggeration. It happens frequently, and usually with people who confuse what this forum is...those who think it's a praise forum, rather than a forum to discuss the pros and cons about religion.
You have to remember that all of us don't keep secret files on other posters like you do.
Yes, indeed. And it's not just because I agree with Shrina on this. (Or is it?)
madenew? Trust me she doesn't have to find some posts from the past...what she said is true...
and has happened to many atheists here.
yeah, I just wish talking about what god may or may not be could be separate from how people feel about religion. I had a regular set of religious parents that didn't do anything other than let me be me.
So, for me, if we blame religion for bad people we need to blame religion for my parents too.
Well, I have said numerous times that religion, be it Christianity or any other, can be helpful and perhaps even beautiful to certain people as long as it stays a personal choice, a personal belief. What completely and forever demolished religion as a positive force for the human condition is when it became organized, political, and authoritarian. Once religion organized itself, it then had the power to *force* everyone else to conform.
Religion places absolutely NO value upon the rights of others. If that weren't bad enough, religious hypocrisy even extends to the point where Christians will loudly proclaim that our "inalienable" rights were given to us by God while simultaneously saying we do NOT have the right to practice whatever religion we choose - or no religion at all. How many times have I crossed swords with Christians on this forum who proclaimed that we do not have protection FROM religion - we only have protection OF religion? Dozens? Hundreds?
Left to its own devices, religion even in America would revert back to its original authoritarian zealotry. In the hundreds of arguments I've had with Christians, I have seen the cracks being chiseled into our freedoms - freedom of religion, freedom of speech, the Establishment Clause and, perhaps most important of all - the freedom to think for ourselves and make up our own minds which religion to choose or to not choose one at all. Mystic only has his opinions on religion because he has the right to express them; there is a frightening swathe of the American population who would sleep soundly at night if all negative speech against Christianity was outlawed and if all other religions were banned within the boundaries of the USA.
I can't even count the number of times - or the number of Christians - on this forum alone who told me that I have no right to even post here because I'm an atheist. Because I don't venerate their particular God, I am not allowed a seat at the table of religious discussion. I am only allowed to watch in mute silence. So much for the beauty and benevolence of religion - a paradigm that teaches people who to hate, who to murder, who to practice their bigotry against, who to exclude from society at large.
I don't think God is evil. I think religion is evil. A small percentage of good people practicing an evil religion doesn't change religion's true nature.
The oldest "sin" in the world is murdering hundreds of thousands of people "in the name of the Lord"--as if that single proclamation of 6 simple words makes a holocaust perfectly acceptable in the eyes of men and God whereas if these 6 simple words are NOT uttered such an act becomes an atrocity. And a God who would sit by and watch this kind of atrocity and do absolutely nothing to stop it when He has the power to is EVIL by our human definition, Shirina, I'm sorry. The existence of such a God is no different than no God existing at all.
If that’s happen to you countless times, then link to a couple good examples of being told you have no right to post on this forum. I’m not saying it’s never happened but your claim sounds like an out-of-context exaggeration to me. Let's see a specific example of what you’re referring to.
Trust me, it's not an out-of-context exaggeration - and if you know me at all from my past writings, I don't make out-of-context exaggerations. I have never posted anything on this forum that wasn't true - unless I was making a joke, and I made sure everyone knew it was a joke.
I can't just whip out an example because I rarely ever post here these days - any responses to my old posts are either gone completely or buried beneath thousands of more recent threads.
But why not ask Baptist Fundy all about how many times he's tried to tell me that I have no right to post here as long as I make criticisms of Christianity? Not that I expect him to actually admit it, mind you.
Keep in mind, I'm not talking about Christians who simply disagree with what I have to say. I neither shy away from or discourage disagreement. These are Christians who have openly said that atheists should be confined *only* to the Atheist and Agnostic section of the forum ... because THIS is the Religion and Spirituality forum. Since atheists don't believe in religion, we shouldn't be allowed to post here.
One final thing, as well - I've been here for a long time. I used to post quite often. These days, I might get the urge to post here a few times a year. One of those reasons is that I'm too tired, too soulsick, and in too much physical pain to start all over again in proving my credibility to people. Been there, done that, and have a closet full of T-shirts. I'd guess that 95% of the people who knew me here are gone - but hey, if you want a character reference, why not ask Mystic? He's not even a fellow atheist who would automatically take my side. Ask him if I'm known for "out-of-context exaggerations."
Another reason why I stopped posting here was precisely *because* the new batch of Christians who started posting here weren't interested in either discussion or debate. Instead, they would dismiss everything I said with that same argument: How dare you even post in the Religion section? In other words, we atheists were expected to simply sit down and shut up. I realized I had better things to do than be dismissed carte blanche in favor of listening to how one must be a believer in God to have an opinion worth listening to.
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