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Science, which is basically how things work, has been in evidence forever, albeit, it didn't have a 'name'.
When primitive man realized that fire could burn the skin of a person but could also cook meat to be tastier...that was 'science'.
When primitive man witnessed his "cave mates" getting sick from eating certain 'green things'...that was 'science' in his early unnamed experience.
Religious connection?
Jews and their pork. Made sense then, no longer does.
The same applies to way too many religious prohibitions or biases.
I'm sorry and with all due respect, though one can argue "science" goes back to the ancient Greeks, I am referring to scientists in the modern sense. The fascinating and more recent history described in this book for example; "A Brief History of Creation: Science and the Search for the Origin of Life," by Bill Mesler and H. James Cleaves II
If you instead want to view man's first experience with fire as "science," we can do that, but it was only recently that we began to have the tools and understanding that allowed us to gain knowledge beyond our immediate abilities as humans. For example when we started to learn there were living creatures in the water we drank, with the help of the telescope. What I'm talking about anyway...
Much in the way of religious rituals, laws and beliefs made sense back when we just didn't know better about so many important things. Conjured up for so many reasons having little to do with reality, but still important for that time. How or why we are having so much time shaking off the old to make room for the new, I really don't know, but as mentioned before in another thread; we no longer use maps made hundreds of years ago to help us on our way. Now we have GPS (also thanks to modern science) that serves us much better, for the same sort of reasons...
You seem full of doubt to me. First you thought my Christian perspective would almost disqualify me from my ability to think, critically. Then you say "I may have over estimated you" me ?? then my lens might be cloudy and my intellect would be distorted, and now I've turned the tables and I'm avoiding something. In addition you've now said your intent is to "demonstrate" I'm wrong. That seems to be a litany of excuses.
Reality.... I'm here for the third time, ready to discuss-debate and not to argue who's right or wrong. I'm making my case and I've invited you to make yours, repeatedly.
There are universal truths. We are all created. Every person is unique. We all have needs to keep us alive in our bodies and minds. I call it the flesh and the spirit. Every answer already exists. Experiences equal knowledge. The present is knowing and of the mind. Imagination and faith are forward looking.
There's more...
My education was Marine Engineering and has little to with my working days. I retired from an electric utility.
Seems we have a different take on my invitation to you and my reasons as well as how I thought you might critique my truths. I'm glad you are back in any case, because I'd really like to steer us clear of these sorts of personal judgments and stick to the merit of these truths or lack thereof. Fair?
That said, of course it is hard to discuss the merits of any belief without venturing into the realm of judging right from wrong, truth from nonsense, but do feel free in whatever way is comfortable for you. No matter to me. I really can't get emotional about any of this in such a forum. All just exchange of perspective is all.
How about this...
Why don't you simply start by reading the First Truth and continue reading from there on down to determine at what point you really don't agree with what I set out to explain? Take that truth, statement or sentence and quote it verbatim. Then tell me what you think is wrong with it. How about that idea?
Mostly what I'm hoping from anyone as more than a few people have already done, with all variety of feedback and input from positive to negative. No matter to me. Just interested in the variety of viewpoints about what I laid out many years ago when I wore a younger man's clothes. More recently updated to include a tenth truth after some of that feedback, input and experience I had in this respect in this forum.
Well I've seen gigantic intelligent ufo's & so have millions of other people & yet science mocks such things. Science is an absolute ignorant monster. An ignorant, cretinous, immoral & corrupt monster that is using its power to keep people in absolute ignorance & darkness. So I won't waste my time reading its big book of absolute garbage. But thank you anyway
Again how we are different...
Because I am interested in why we all seem to believe different things, I've read all manner of books about this dynamic, including the Bible and the Koran, and I've formally studied the world religions. Read all sorts of books that I either tend to agree with or maybe not so much, but I know better about all of them as a result either way.
Not that I expect us to agree about anything along these lines at this point, but maybe just to point out how our differences also cause us to believe different things while we all know we can't all be right about all things.
Maybe you would be more interested in considering this thread, though I suspect your primary interest is to continue your personal testament about your personal beliefs despite everything else. No need to share much more of that with me in that case. Believe me I've read your comments, understand them and know them to be your beliefs above all else.
Dave, you and Learn me seem to be groping around matters that have been looked at in past posts, notably in discussions with Mystic and Gaylenwoof on the philosophic end of science, such as body and 'spirit' (or the intangible or unexplained aspects of humans), and the nature of reality and the remoteness or subjectivity of human perception.
The result of this (so far as I was concerned - the other two might disagree) is that reality exists on its' own terms, science is a method for validating it and correcting the errors of human limited perception, and that what can't be explained in terms of engineering, either mineral or biological, are the things of the 'spirit' and are increasingly being explained in biological terms. Even religion.
Thank you and since you've been around this forum a good deal longer than I have, besides what you touch upon, has there also been the effort to suggest how we should go about recognizing such truth in the name of fostering peace rather than continued conflict? Though it has been a long time since I first conceived of laying these truths out as such, ultimately I think it was that goal that inspired me. How do we all come to accept an approach or way of thinking that might allow us to "land" on common ground, in peace, despite our differences?
God spent years demonstrating His Supreme Science to me. God controls all time & space using a science that is child's play to Him.
Our own scientists hide facts from us. So they are totally corrupt & they are Owned by corrupt powers. It's like they are an evil cult keeping everyone as their stupid slaves. Sure mankind's science can be helpful. But it is not the supreme truth. It is a tiny little narrow minded view of reality that has been carefully sculpted to keep you dumb & under control.
And that is probably because mankind is so savage that it would be dangerous to teach them too much.
God controls everything with science. It is the science that can alter the measurements of all dimensions that hold you within them. So I know what science is. But I also know that God is the supreme scientist & you won't get anywhere unless you respect God 100%
And No I don't want to read an atheistic thread you really like. It would no doubt be like listening to devils gibbering & jabbering to one another. But thanks anyway
Religious connection?
Jews and their pork. Made sense then, no longer does.
The Hebrews copied it from older cultures and it still makes sense.
I will not eat catfish from the Great Miami River. I will not because I happen to know that the river is heavily contaminated with mercury, arsenic, chromium and other heavy metals used by tanneries, upholsterers, fabric companies and furniture and cabinet makers who dumped their waste product into the Great Miami up until the 1970s.
Scavengers, whether birds, mammals, fish or shellfish are scavengers and seeing how people engaged in metallurgy, jewelry making, ink, dyes and pottery glazes, and other things didn't exactly follow EPA environmental standards, it's no surprise that some people figure out that eating scavengers isn't healthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
I'm sorry and with all due respect, though one can argue "science" goes back to the ancient Greeks,...
Sumerians. The Greeks were infants compared to Sumerians and Akkadians.
Like the tar pits in California, oils, tars and bitumens seeped to the surface in the Middle East and North Africa. The Sumerians had more than a dozen different names for those oils, tars and bitumens based on their chemical properties.
That's science.
Sumerians had doctors of water and doctors of oil. As their names imply, some doctors used water-based medical treatments, while some used oil-based medical treatments.
Sumerians knew cancer. A Sumerian text describes scraping the growth off of bone.
Sumerians could perform surgery, because they knew how to synthesize a variety of opiate derivatives. They also knew how to synthesize atropine from the Night Shade family of plants.
Sumerians performed cataract surgeries.
They engaged in metallurgy. They knew combining a metal with other metals altered the properties of the base metal, just like we use standard military grade Aluminum alloyed with manganese, magnesium and chromium to alter the base properties and give Aluminum more strength and stability.
Sumerians knew how to combine metals, minerals and plant material to create inks and dyes for different colors.
Sumerians knew the Earth was a sphere and orbited the Sun. The knew of the Precession of the Equinoxes, and that is proof they knew Earth was a sphere and orbited the Sun. The caculated the Precession of the Equinoxes back to the Age of Pisces 27,000 years ago. The created the 360°, the 60 minutes and 60 seconds of arc, the beru -- 12 hour day and 12 hour night expressed as double beru for a 24-hour day (written as beru.beru).
The named the planets and created the 12 Constellations, plus 12 constellations in the northern hemisphere and 12 constellations in the southern hemisphere.
The stars in the 12 constellations in the southern hemisphere cannot be seen from Mesopotamia. For most, you have to travel below the Tropic of Capricorn (30°S Latitude) and for some you can only see them from present-day South Africa.
No shock there, since the Sumerians also claim there was an observatory in present-day South Africa.
Present-day South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe and Mozambique were the domain of the god Nergal.
The Sumerians had a unique name for Nergal's domain, and when the idiot Greeks came across this word, they couldn't understand it, because they were stupid and believed Earth was flat, so they translated it as "underworld."
That's how Hell came to be.
Sumerians have star tables listing stars and two different measurements, one apparently in time and the other is the distance from that star to the next star on the list, and they would have used the Pythagorean Theorem to do that long before the Greeks knew about it. They calculated and predicted solar and lunar eclipses, and the retrograde motion of planets.
Other than screwing over the entire world with their silly philosophical nonsense, what exactly did the Greeks do?
The Hebrews copied it from older cultures and it still makes sense.
I will not eat catfish from the Great Miami River. I will not because I happen to know that the river is heavily contaminated with mercury, arsenic, chromium and other heavy metals used by tanneries, upholsterers, fabric companies and furniture and cabinet makers who dumped their waste product into the Great Miami up until the 1970s.
Mircea, Really!!......even though Todays chemical contamination is a huge problem, what the hell do you think that has anything to do with the ancient prohibition of pork due to the problem of toxins of that time which had nothing to do with modern chemicals
Mircea, Really!!......even though Todays chemical contamination is a huge problem, what the hell do you think that has anything to do with the ancient prohibition of pork due to the problem of toxins of that time which had nothing to do with modern chemicals
Well the odd prohibitions that actually do have valid medical reasons behind them are always apologetics points. As i recall, these are perhaps explained by the Ick factor. The cleaning effect of water is known even to bird -brains. That some happen to have legitimate medical applications doesn't make up for the un -medical nonsense we read in the Bible.
Is it okay to discuss your ten truths in a practical sense? For example: Universal truth: We all live on planet Earth. Personal reality: Some people live better lives than others on Earth.
Not sure I follow, and I'm always perplexed by this confusion, but thanks for the question...
Of course it's okay to discuss these truths in whatever manner you wish! I'm not like these anal folks forever complaining about this or that, seemingly wanting to control traffic but mostly just wanting to get in the way. Forever complaining and bellyaching, using the report button like babies.
Have at it! Fear not! By all means!
Universal truth. We all live on planet Earth. Yes. Also true that some people live better lives than others on Earth. Not sure the difference, but of course "better" is a rather subjective measure.
I like to put it this way, "There are essentially two realities for all human beings. One reality is as we perceive it to be, our personal reality. The second reality is all that truly exists in the universe, the same for all of us. Our universal truth."
Sumerians. The Greeks were infants compared to Sumerians and Akkadians.
Like the tar pits in California, oils, tars and bitumens seeped to the surface in the Middle East and North Africa. The Sumerians had more than a dozen different names for those oils, tars and bitumens based on their chemical properties.
That's science.
Sumerians had doctors of water and doctors of oil. As their names imply, some doctors used water-based medical treatments, while some used oil-based medical treatments.
Sumerians knew cancer. A Sumerian text describes scraping the growth off of bone.
Sumerians could perform surgery, because they knew how to synthesize a variety of opiate derivatives. They also knew how to synthesize atropine from the Night Shade family of plants.
Sumerians performed cataract surgeries.
They engaged in metallurgy. They knew combining a metal with other metals altered the properties of the base metal, just like we use standard military grade Aluminum alloyed with manganese, magnesium and chromium to alter the base properties and give Aluminum more strength and stability.
Sumerians knew how to combine metals, minerals and plant material to create inks and dyes for different colors.
Sumerians knew the Earth was a sphere and orbited the Sun. The knew of the Precession of the Equinoxes, and that is proof they knew Earth was a sphere and orbited the Sun. The caculated the Precession of the Equinoxes back to the Age of Pisces 27,000 years ago. The created the 360°, the 60 minutes and 60 seconds of arc, the beru -- 12 hour day and 12 hour night expressed as double beru for a 24-hour day (written as beru.beru).
The named the planets and created the 12 Constellations, plus 12 constellations in the northern hemisphere and 12 constellations in the southern hemisphere.
The stars in the 12 constellations in the southern hemisphere cannot be seen from Mesopotamia. For most, you have to travel below the Tropic of Capricorn (30°S Latitude) and for some you can only see them from present-day South Africa.
No shock there, since the Sumerians also claim there was an observatory in present-day South Africa.
Present-day South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe and Mozambique were the domain of the god Nergal.
The Sumerians had a unique name for Nergal's domain, and when the idiot Greeks came across this word, they couldn't understand it, because they were stupid and believed Earth was flat, so they translated it as "underworld."
That's how Hell came to be.
Sumerians have star tables listing stars and two different measurements, one apparently in time and the other is the distance from that star to the next star on the list, and they would have used the Pythagorean Theorem to do that long before the Greeks knew about it. They calculated and predicted solar and lunar eclipses, and the retrograde motion of planets.
Other than screwing over the entire world with their silly philosophical nonsense, what exactly did the Greeks do?
I'm sorry and with all due respect, though one can argue "science" goes back to the ancient Sumerians, I am referring to scientists in the modern sense. The fascinating and more recent history described in this book for example; "A Brief History of Creation: Science and the Search for the Origin of Life," by Bill Mesler and H. James Cleaves II
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