Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It just goes to prove that using a fallacy such as ad populum does not help your case. If there were not one person in the world that believed God, God is not bound by what people do not believe. It is really too late. Christ has already ransomed all mankind whether they believe it or not and based on that "God will have all mankind to be saved" (1 Tim.2:4-6).
This is how it is supposed to be but of course no one likes an equal playing field do they?
Quote:
The refiners fire was for Israel. It had to do with Israel being in Egypt 400+ years. They were said to be in an iron furnace and God refined them through that figurative fire of hardship and slavery.
Cute change in direction. Debating you is like trying to nail jello to a wall.
Quote:
I look forward to having immortality and incorruption. I don't like dying. I want to live.
Why? Are you scared of death? If so, someone really did a number on you.
Quote:
You can drink the atheist Koolaide all you want but you will still be saved eventually.
No I won't.
Quote:
I don't believe what you just stated above.
I find that hard to comprehend as most UR folk need some type of purgatory to make them feel speshall.
Quote:
Actually, I do not.
No, that is not what I believe.
So tell us, in your alternate reality, everyone simply walks into UR heaven?
Quote:
Yes you were anyway wrong about me being a crappy apologist.
No you are crappy as you deflect and divert and never are prepared to stand by stuff you posit.
Quote:
Yep, may as well because salvation is not based on what you do or do not do. Christ already ransomed you. One who is ransomed must be freed. It just takes time. As God quoted the Rolling Stones "Time is on My side, Yes it it!" You didn't know God likes listening to the Rolling Stones?
There is no way in this lifetime I will go back to belief. Your idea seems more like a kidnapping than a freeing.
Quote:
I am not a UR calvinist. I am not a UR 7th Day Adventist. I am not a UR Arminian. I am not a UR Baptist/Lutheran/Catholic or any other.
You speak the talk of a calvnist.
Quote:
Doesn't matter. You will still be saved.
Doesn't matter, they will still be saved.
No I won't
Quote:
Sorry to hear that. I used to post over there. There were quite a lot of strange ideas from people who supposedly hear directly from God. I couldn't take their special revelations so left.
Ergo ET/UR same crap different day.
Quote:
I understand. But no, I'm not Calvinist. Keep trying to label me though . . . the labels don't stick.
Too late. Christ already ransomed you.
I said Jesus said Noah built an ark and the world perished in the flood. If Jesus lied, we cannot believe any of the Bible.
Well he obviously did lie. Rather whoever put words in his mouth lied. An all knowing god would have fully been aware of a global flood being impossible, it would also have been aware the whole Genesis nonsense was/is not possible.
Quote:
Of course He answerd their question.
I fail to see how he answered their question. To you it seems like you did but he did not, he made up the angels story and then moves onto another topic. You do the same thing on occasion, it is called deflection.
Quote:
God's expectations trump your no expectations.
I think it would benefit everyone if they believed we all have to answer to God and that God will save all mankind. What do you know of my UR version of Heaven? Care to elucidate on that? I doubt you really know. Just more shooting from the hip. Let us all here know what I believe about the UR version of Heaven, shall we? Come now, surely you know.
Here is your chance to tell us how it works.
Quote:
Not really. My analogy is that the country everyone lives in SUCKS DONKEY TURDS. They have been so conditioned to donkey turds they think they are not bad at all. What God is going to do is take them out of their donkey turdean world and resurrect them, give them immortality and incorruption and all the the fruits of the spirit.
That may work for you but we are really happy as is. Your idea it seems is a kidnapping. If it is done agianst my will, that make your god a tyrant which is pretty much how the bible portrays him.
Quote:
And how is God's goal to save all mankind, give them immortality and incorruption like a country you suggest above?
From what I have seen, such changes do not appeal to me in the least. In even the most reasonable of believers, there has been a tendency to reject the more probable explanations in favour of the Faith -based one, logical reasoning in favour of Faith - based beliefs and evidence in favour of faith-based claims.
As I say- from what I have seen, so you can save yourself the task of denying it. That is what I see and that is a change that I can only contemplate with horror.
Can I have your views on whether,if there is no hell - not even a temporary one - there is any good reason why any of us should be Christians?
P.s because it feels good is not a good reason. That it is true is also nit a good one. On evidence, there is (I am convinced) no truth in it. And even so, taking Pascal's wager, since Christianity has no hellthreat, (if indeed that is your position) should you not convert to a religion that does, and which does not entertain UR theories?
Ok. What I was curious about was whether you believed in Eternal torment (you don't) or some kind or purging temporary torment before going onto heaven. It looks as though you don't believe that either. I gather that you do believe that to be a Christian one has to believe in the resurrection as described in the Gospels.
So what I would ask is, what it gets us if you do, and what we lose if we don't.
If one reads Romans chapter 4 concerning Abraham, all he did was believe God concerning God telling him he would have a son. God reckoned Abraham righteous for that.
Romans 4:20-22 yet the promise of God was not doubted in unbelief, but he was invigorated by faith,
giving glory to God, (21) being fully assured also, that, what He has promised, He is able to do also."
(22) Wherefore, also, it is reckoned to him for righteousness."
Then Paul stated:
Romans 4:23-25 (23) Now it was not written because of him only, that it is reckoned to him, (24) but
because of us also, to whom it is about to be reckoned, who are believing on Him Who rouses Jesus our
Lord from among the dead." (25) Who was given up because of our offenses, and was roused because of
our justifying."
There are quite a number of things a believer of the nations get: righteousness, justification, reconciliation, going out amonst the celestials/heavenlies for the next two eons/ages to be a part of the administration to head up all in the Christ, all in the heavens and all on the earth.
What one loses if God does not give them grace to be believing: They will not be living for the duration of the next two eons/ages to come. None of that is punishment for not believing. There are no verses that tell us God will send people to hell if they don't believe. Such ones remain in the grave till the ending of the thousand year reign, then are resurrected to appear before the great white throne and will be set straight on many issues in one's life. Then if not in the book or scroll of life will re-enter death until the consummation of the final eon/age.
From what I have seen, such changes do not appeal to me in the least. In even the most reasonable of believers, there has been a tendency to reject the more probable explanations in favour of the Faith -based one, logical reasoning in favour of Faith - based beliefs and evidence in favour of faith-based claims.
As I say- from what I have seen, so you can save yourself the task of denying it. That is what I see and that is a change that I can only contemplate with horror.
So if a doctor approached you with a vaccine and guaranteed it would make you almost as handsome as me, give you immortality, never be sick again, make you almost as smart as me, you would still contemplate that with horror? I am at a loss for words.
Quote:
Can I have your views on whether,if there is no hell - not even a temporary one - there is any good reason why any of us should be Christians?
P.s because it feels good is not a good reason. That it is true is also nit a good one. On evidence, there is (I am convinced) no truth in it. And even so, taking Pascal's wager, since Christianity has no hellthreat, (if indeed that is your position) should you not convert to a religion that does, and which does not entertain UR theories?
Do you mean that you think the only good reason for being a Christian is to escape a "hell"? And if there is no "hell" why even be a Christian?
Life! Age-during life for the next two ages
Immortality
Incorruption
Being filled with all the fruit of the spirit
Being a son of God and a brother of Jesus
Reigning with Christ among the celestials
Being seated with Christ among the celestials
Finally walking in perfect love
Being able to whip any Klingon or Darth Vader any time any day
Many other blessings
I'd stay far away from any church that threatens anyone with hell. It is child abuse and mental abuse.
So if a doctor approached you with a vaccine and guaranteed it would make you almost as handsome as me, give you immortality, never be sick again, make you almost as smart as me, you would still contemplate that with horror? I am at a loss for words.
Do you mean that you think the only good reason for being a Christian is to escape a "hell"? And if there is no "hell" why even be a Christian?
Life! Age-during life for the next two ages
Immortality
Incorruption
Being filled with all the fruit of the spirit
Being a son of God and a brother of Jesus
Reigning with Christ among the celestials
Being seated with Christ among the celestials
Finally walking in perfect love
Being able to whip any Klingon or Darth Vader any time any day
Many other blessings
I'd stay far away from any church that threatens anyone with hell. It is child abuse and mental abuse.
So if a doctor approached you with a vaccine and guaranteed it would make you almost as handsome as me, give you immortality, never be sick again, make you almost as smart as me, you would still contemplate that with horror? I am at a loss for words.
Do you mean that you think the only good reason for being a Christian is to escape a "hell"? And if there is no "hell" why even be a Christian?
Life! Age-during life for the next two ages (Negligible)
Immortality (Disincentive)
Incorruption (Insignificant)
Being filled with all the fruit of the spirit (Undefinable)
Being a son of God and a brother of Jesus (Disincentive)
Reigning with Christ among the celestials (Disincentive)
Being seated with Christ among the celestials (Disincentive)
Finally walking in perfect love (Negligible)
Being able to whip any Klingon or Darth Vader any time any day
Many other blessings
I'd stay far away from any church that threatens anyone with hell. It is child abuse and mental abuse.
You really don't make a very good case with these supposed "good reasons".
So if a doctor approached you with a vaccine and guaranteed it would make you almost as handsome as me, give you immortality, never be sick again, make you almost as smart as me, you would still contemplate that with horror? I am at a loss for words.
We all know you are not smart, I'll give you a pass on the good looks.
Perhaps you have been sickly, I have been pretty healthy all my life, only the BP nagging now in my old age and the damn eyes not that hot. Got fixes for both of these so I can cope with the body deteriorating.
This begs the question for intelligent design. My eyes at 56 are not so hot, your Noah at 900 would have been blind.
Quote:
Do you mean that you think the only good reason for being a Christian is to escape a "hell"? And if there is no "hell" why even be a Christian?
Life! Age-during life for the next two ages
(not interested)
Quote:
Immortality
(not interested)
Quote:
Incorruption
(not needed)
Quote:
Being filled with all the fruit of the spirit
(Not interested)
Quote:
Being a son of God and a brother of Jesus
(Not interested)
Quote:
Reigning with Christ among the celestials
What are you going to do?)
Quote:
Being seated with Christ among the celestials
(sounds boring)
Quote:
Finally walking in perfect love
(I am ok with lurv as is)
Quote:
Being able to whip any Klingon or Darth Vader any time any day
(imaginary enemies - OK)
Quote:
Many other blessings
(yeah, does not sound compelling)
Quote:
I'd stay far away from any church that threatens anyone with hell. It is child abuse and mental abuse.
I'd stay away from any church - period.
Your bullet list may be what fires your motor, you assume we all want what you want. This is called projection.
You can go help Fred Phelps make new signs of what god hates.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
