Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The funny thing is, the instant I admitted to myself that Christianity wasn't true, all sorts of things suddenly became really obvious to me. Things that I had never even thought to question before. I not only understood the wider world differently, I also saw Christianity itself in a whole new light. The sociology of what was going on came right in focus.
Looking at Christianity from the outside is so different than from the inside, it's like I was blind or something.
So true, Boxcar. It's like the fog lifted off of my brain.
They were never Christian. The word says clearly if they left us, they were never of us. But they try to argue their case. Yeah right! A Christian is someone that has accepted the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ for their sins because they chose to go to Heaven! Not someone who attends church functions and had bible meetings for half of their life. That means absolutely NOTHING if they never accepted the blood of Christ!
Yeah, well, I did that too. That was the FIRST thing I did.
And here it is! Someone who didn't even bother to read the thread! I predicted this in my first post. It ALWAYS comes down to this. The only way to keep their own faith is to call us liars.
This is what it boils down to. The only true test of Christianity is continual profession of faith. It isn't your deeds, God will forgive, it isn't doctrine, God sees the heart, it isn't church involvement, Christianity is "not a religion its a relationship". The only unforgivable sin in Modern Christianity is leaving...
-NoCapo
I got an odd sense of release after seeing allenk893's post. It was like finally getting the resolution we all knew was coming. He's totally wrong of course, but it's satisfying that the argument gets clearly exposed.
Eusebius is still being a little coy, like he just-kind-of-wants-to-know for no particular reason.
Dear NoCapo, please read Romans chapter 4 concerning Abraham and how later in that chapter Paul used Abraham's experience of just believing God and using it to reinforce our experience of believing God concerning Christ:
Romans 4:22-25 Wherefore, also, it is reckoned to him for righteousness." (23) Now it was not written
because of him only, that it is reckoned to him, (24) but because of us also, to whom it is about to be
reckoned, who are believing on Him Who rouses Jesus our Lord from among the dead." (25) Who was given
up because of our offenses, and was roused because of our justifying."
Paul of course did not know what he was talking about. Abraham believed in God, and that was righteous enough. He didn't believe in Jesus. He'd never heard of him. So does that mean he wasn't saved even though he was 'righteous'? (1)
Quote:
God doesn't require us to go to Bible college or seminary to unravel what actually took place in Christ dying for us. It is so simple. He just asks that we believe Him concerning Christ dying for our sins and offenses, was entombed and rose from the dead. If one believes God concerning this, they are righteous.
God doesn't require us to join a church first, or clean up our act, do so many push-ups etc. The foundation, the beginning point is believing God like Abraham believed God.
It takes faith to believe God concerning Christ dying for us, being entombed and roused again out of death.
Many people are told if they just make Jesus Lord of their lives they will be saved.
Or they are told if they just accept Jesus into their heart they will be saved.
Or they are told if they just repent of their sins and will live for Jesus they will be saved.
None of the three points above would even save a gnat. Churches are filled with these kind of pagan "Christians."
Good grief, Eusebius, so the only ticket to salvation is whether or not you believe in the literal truth of the resurrection-story? Doesn't that strike you as a bit...short of worthiness to be with God? Sorta, like you only get into heaven if you believe in a flat earth in spite of the evidence?
And what happened to Universal Redemption?
(1) P.s yes, yes, I could see it coming. He was saved because he was righteous through believing God before Jesus came. But now Jesus has come that is an additional thing (2) we have to believe in order to be righteous.
That is again where Paul's thesis is wrong. The Law (Jewish law) does not save (through being righteous) because Abraham was 'righteous' (enough to be saved presumably) through belief in God before the law was given. But- to use the argument above-which is the only one that can work, it seems to me - once it was given, like 'once Jesus had appeared' it was incumbent to keep it and keeping it would be enough to make people righteous.
And in fact Paul says so in Romans,though he forgets it pretty quick because he does not keep the law and so he argues that faith in Jesus makes the law obsolete. And this is a point taken up and made central to the gospels. Jesus appeared and 'fulfilled' the law which, quite clearly has the effect of making the Law obsolete.
(2) I love foopnotes within foopnotes. according to Paul that Jesus was the resurrected messiah and according to you, too, in a more Gospel-text -specific way.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-20-2014 at 09:09 AM..
So true, Boxcar. It's like the fog lifted off of my brain.
I would have never guessed that such a powerful and personal experience like I had would be nearly universal among the ex-believers I've spoken with. It's something that doesn't get talked about much I guess.
Out there right now there is probably someone going through the same exact thing we did. Fighting, resisting, struggling, holding on... and finally surrendering to the logic.
Then, it washes over them like a cold wave. "What the hell have I been believing all my life?!?" From that point on the whole world looks different.
I would have never guessed that such a powerful and personal experience like I had would be nearly universal among the ex-believers I've spoken with. It's something that doesn't get talked about much I guess.
Out there right now there is probably someone going through the same exact thing we did. Fighting, resisting, struggling, holding on... and finally surrendering to the logic.
Then, it washes over them like a cold wave. "What the hell have I been believing all my life?!?" From that point on the whole world looks different.
Absolutely! It is profoundly life changing, at least it was for me. It has been a huge burden off of me. I find peace and joy so much more attainable now than when I was under the weight of belief.
It is a little amazing to hear so many others mirror the experiences my wife and I had. We kind of thought there weren't so many of us...
I would have never guessed that such a powerful and personal experience like I had would be nearly universal among the ex-believers I've spoken with. It's something that doesn't get talked about much I guess.
Out there right now there is probably someone going through the same exact thing we did. Fighting, resisting, struggling, holding on... and finally surrendering to the logic.
Then, it washes over them like a cold wave. "What the hell have I been believing all my life?!?" From that point on the whole world looks different.
That, I believe, is where we are needed. One of the worst things about going through a crisis is thinking that you are the only one-nobody out there understands. We understand only too well.
That's why I encourage posters with problems. Not to preach and advise, but to listen and let them vent. It's a service.
Absolutely! It is profoundly life changing, at least it was for me. It has been a huge burden off of me. I find peace and joy so much more attainable now than when I was under the weight of belief.
It is a little amazing to hear so many others mirror the experiences my wife and I had. We kind of thought there weren't so many of us...
-NoCapo
Absolutely, NoCapo. I've been amazed also. It has been life changing for me as well -- in a GOOD way. For someone who has lived a lifetime of guilt, it is a welcome change. My husband was the first to "deconvert" if you will. It took me a little longer to let go, lol.
Absolutely! It is profoundly life changing, at least it was for me. It has been a huge burden off of me. I find peace and joy so much more attainable now than when I was under the weight of belief.
It is a little amazing to hear so many others mirror the experiences my wife and I had. We kind of thought there weren't so many of us...
-NoCapo
We are legion.*
*Bible-believers are nodding solemnly - certain in the knowledge we heathens and apostates will burn forever along with our demon brethren.
A Christian is a person who was raised from infancy in a culture in which the moral and ethical fabric is based on Christian tradition. I have never, for a moment in my life as I remember it, believed a single shred of Christian theology, nor that Jesus was endowed with any powers or attributes not accessible to any other human being. However, I function most comfortably within the fundamental social environment that filmmaker Mike Borchardt called "the Christian-coated ethical arena" that exists wherever Christians have regulated social organization and customs.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
