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I think this is Vic's point - with so many sex partners between those involved the risk of STD's, among other things, is much greater than in monogamous relationships.
I meant "protection" as in "protection from STDs". Obviously, birth control is pretty standard for both. But in any relationship where it's understood one of the partners is free to have sex with other people, I would think they'd use more than BC to prevent contracting a sexually transmitted disease. But maybe not.
We used condoms plus birth control until husband's vasectomy after he was a confirmed member of the seedless grapes club. We're paranoid about birth control failure given we've both been friends to people who've had abortions.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
One person feeling that the other two people are closer, more compassionate, or more satisfied with each other than either of the two are with said person (whether they are or not) wouldn't mean that person wants to be with just one of them at all. This sort of jealousy or feeling left out is fairly common even among friends; why wouldn't it occur among sexual partners?
I think this is Vic's point - with so many sex partners between those involved the risk of STD's, among other things, is much greater than in monogamous relationships.
Hence discussions of STD's and using condoms and getting tested. Until I was married, I tested regularly unless I hadn't been sexually active since the last test and always discussed BC and testing with new partners. Strangely, most got squirmy, but frank discussion is necessary. I would expect with poly's, if a new partner is added, it is discussed with other partners. Am I right?
I think this is Vic's point - with so many sex partners between those involved the risk of STD's, among other things, is much greater than in monogamous relationships.
There are not 'so many sex partners' . A typical situation is one woman with two husbands, together for 15 or 20 years.
Even for single folk, which is more risky: Sex with someone who was tested last week for STIs and had none, who knows which STIs condoms protect you from and which don't, and how to protect yourselves from the other, and who insists on safe sex practices -- or someone who has never been tested, and 'forgets' to use a condom when drunk?
What if they have each had the same number of lifetime sex partners, and their partners have the same level of knowledge and carefulness that they do?
I know, it's tempting to imagine poly folks as all slutty and germy . But they tend to have one or two partners and be fanatical about avoiding disease.
Vic's a little confused, because poly normally means Ann dates Bob and Carl, but does not mean that Carl dates Bob.
The way I worded it can fit such a relationship, in addition to any that involve all three or more partners "dating" each other (What would you call the latter relationship, BTW? Just curious.)
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Originally Posted by NilaJones
But the fear that 'you will like him/her better' is a common one. So, you look at what underlies that. If Bob has this fear, does he feel unlovable? Is it an esteem issue? In that case, he can work on his self esteem. Or does he not trust Ann's word? Does she think she would lie to him? Why does he think that? Does he simply need to be reassured? Does he need time in which to observe her making promises and keeping them? And so on. It's incredibly empowering, to have methods for dealing with emotions other than just trying not to feel them, or trying to avoid situations that trigger them.
First, no one said these problems couldn't be worked out. I only said that with more people come more opportunities for such problems to arise, when/if all other factors (which would include the self esteem and trust issues each individual is bringing to the table) are equal compared to a monogamous relationship. Naturally, any relationship involving someone suffering from self esteem or trust issues is going to be more of a challenge than a relationship without either. And second, are you meaning to imply that the poorer alternative in that last sentence is more prevalent in monogamy than polygamy/polyamory? Because I don't see how one could tie suppressing your emotions or avoiding situations in with monogamy in and of itself. You'd have to assume something further about any given monogamous relationship to do that.
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Originally Posted by NilaJones
If you can gird your loins to enter a poly forum, you will find that people there tend to be EXTREMELY well informed about STI rates and transmission prevention, far more so than monogamous people. And no, you can't fake that.
Assuming for a moment that this is true, it was precisely my point earlier: they kinda have to be, to make up for the fact that in and of itself sex with a higher number of partners = a higher risk of contracting an STD.
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Originally Posted by NilaJones
It shocks me the stuff mono people don't know. We had guy here the other day saying that if you use a condom there is no need for a pre-sex conversation about STIs and testing! Someone who tried to get with a poly person and hadn't been tested in the last few months, or who thought condoms prevented all STIs, would be laughed out of town.
You actually think such a person is representative of any fraction of monogamous adults? Doesn't even sound like an adult at all to me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones
There are not 'so many sex partners' . A typical situation is one woman with two husbands, together for 15 or 20 years.
This is a good time for me to start asking things like,
Do you have any sources that would verify "one woman with two husbands, together for 15 or 20 years" is typical of polygamous relationships? Forgive me, but you seem to be painting polygamy/polyamory in an unrealistically positive light.
Someone who tried to get with a poly person and hadn't been tested in the last few months, or who thought condoms prevented all STIs, would be laughed out of town.
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You actually think such a person is representative of any fraction of monogamous adults? Doesn't even sound like an adult at all to me...
I'm sorry to say that, when it comes to dating highly educated monogamous men in the 40's, it's typical in my experience .
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Do you have any sources that would verify "one woman with two husbands, together for 15 or 20 years" is typical of polygamous relationships?
It's typical of the thousand or so RL poly people I know. Also, national leaders in the poly community say it is typical in their experience.
Of course, you have said that your assumption is that they lie but I do not. I can offer no proof relevant to that theory.
Hence discussions of STD's and using condoms and getting tested. Until I was married, I tested regularly unless I hadn't been sexually active since the last test and always discussed BC and testing with new partners. Strangely, most got squirmy, but frank discussion is necessary. I would expect with poly's, if a new partner is added, it is discussed with other partners. Am I right?
Yes. Most poly people have agreements with their existing partner/s relating to safe sex and testing with new partners.
For example, if Ann and Bob are married and they decide to become poly, they will often agree that neither of them will have sex with a new person until they have seen their test results, and that they will use condoms with the new person until everyone agrees it's ok not to (which may be years, or never -- or may be sooner if all get along well and develop trust for each other).
Someone who tried to get with a poly person and hadn't been tested in the last few months, or who thought condoms prevented all STIs, would be laughed out of town.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
You actually think such a person is representative of any fraction of monogamous adults? Doesn't even sound like an adult at all to me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones
I'm sorry to say that, when it comes to dating highly educated monogamous men in the 40's, it's typical in my experience
In the 40's? What reason have you to believe that most people in general weren't that ignorant when it came to STDs in the 40's, including polyamorous folks?
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Do you have any sources that would verify "one woman with two husbands, together for 15 or 20 years" is typical of polygamous relationships?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones
It's typical of the thousand or so RL poly people I know. Also, national leaders in the poly community say it is typical in their experience.
Not only do I not believe you know a thousand or so polyamorous people in real life; I would like to know which "national leaders in the poly community" concur with you and see confirmation of that.
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Originally Posted by NilaJones
Of course, you have said that your assumption is that they lie but I do not. I can offer no proof relevant to that theory.
I have done no such thing. I only said they could be lying to make the point that online accounts of anecdotal evidence (no matter what their statement is) are not the least bit convincing. Again, anyone can tell a story to paint something in a positive light, just as anyone can tell a story to make the same thing sound absolutely dreadful. My skepticism is not an assumption; believing such stories is closer to assumption than not believing.
In the 40's? What reason have you to believe that most people in general weren't that ignorant when it came to STDs in the 40's, including polyamorous folks?
LOL, apologies for the typo. Men in THEIR 40s.
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Not only do I not believe you know a thousand or so polyamorous people in real life
WTF?? Why on earth not?
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I would like to know which "national leaders in the poly community" concur with you and see confirmation of that.
I bet you can find them in a 5 minute google session. I am not going to give you names, out of respect for privacy. But, honestly, there are not a lot of national leaders in the poly world . I'd be surprised if you found one I don't know.
Not only do I not believe you know a thousand or so polyamorous people in real life
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Originally Posted by NilaJones
WTF?? Why on earth not?
...Seriously? It's getting too late for this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Do you have any sources that would verify "one woman with two husbands, together for 15 or 20 years" is typical of polygamous relationships?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones
...national leaders in the poly community say it is typical in their experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
I would like to know which "national leaders in the poly community" concur with you and see confirmation of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilaJones
I bet you can find them in a 5 minute google session. I am not going to give you names, out of respect for privacy. But, honestly, there are not a lot of national leaders in the poly world . I'd be surprised if you found one I don't know.
It isn't my job to find support for your statements. It is yours.
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. A typical situation is one woman with two husbands, together for 15 or 20 years.
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