Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I do not want them in the schools if they are not educators first.
Until someone shows up with a weapon with evil intentions, then suddenly it seems like a good idea to have someone trained to handle just such a situation. Remember, that's why schools have police office assigned to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemstone1
"they are LAW ENFORCEMENT first and we want them and need them that is what we want them to be." We can agree to disagree about what "we" want them to be, but what is clear is....the enforcement official did not de-escalate the situation properly. But the bigger question is....why ? Was he intimidated by a 100 pound teenage girl ? Did he "fear for his life" ? Did he merely over-react in the heat of the moment (which brings up a bigger question...what would he do in a really difficult situation ?) ? Do "we" really want that type of personality in the schools ?
Regards
Gemstone1
Actually, I'm pretty sure that by removing one of the active agents of the situation it did help to deescalate. I bet that once the girl featured in the body slam video was successfully separated from the fight it was a bit easier for the other adults to regain control.
I'm sorry, but while I'm among the first people to question excessive force, I also understand that force is generally required in many situations in order for properly trained law enforcement personnel to do their job. Do you know why active and retired police officers are so quick to defend members of their profession? Because uninformed amateurs are so quick to condemn them.
Without all of the details available, any conclusion is poorly formed and opinion based.
Y'know what worries me? That with all of the intense public scrutiny being placed on the actions of police officers it's going to become impossible to recruit into the profession. And when that happens, who are all of those sitting in the jury box within the court of public opinion going to summon when they need aid?
I don't have a problem with most police officers, but this guy was young — way too young to have teenagers of his own — and body slamming that young teen was just way over the line. This is just flat out wrong. There is no excuse for his actions. I would be beyond livid if my kid was treated this way.
Until someone shows up with a weapon with evil intentions, then suddenly it seems like a good idea to have someone trained to handle just such a situation. Remember, that's why schools have police office assigned to them.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that by removing one of the active agents of the situation it did help to deescalate. I bet that once the girl featured in the body slam video was successfully separated from the fight it was a bit easier for the other adults to regain control.
I'm sorry, but while I'm among the first people to question excessive force, I also understand that force is generally required in many situations in order for properly trained law enforcement personnel to do their job. Do you know why active and retired police officers are so quick to defend members of their profession? Because uninformed amateurs are so quick to condemn them.
Without all of the details available, any conclusion is poorly formed and opinion based.
Y'know what worries me? That with all of the intense public scrutiny being placed on the actions of police officers it's going to become impossible to recruit into the profession. And when that happens, who are all of those sitting in the jury box within the court of public opinion going to summon when they need aid?
Depending on the circumstances school system and individual schools it can be a challenge to find officers willing to become school resource officers. It isn't a great path to promotion in many systems. On the other hand a very efficient school resource officer who works with detectives and street officers can become very valuable in helping to solve and prevent crime in the community.
Kids today in some schools are often big and violent and beyond the ability of educators to control or contain. If you don't want police to be there to protect your kids that's up to you. If the consensus in a community is that there shouldn't be officers than so be it. Will teachers want to teach there? Will administrators want to work there?
That will be a variable that is very different from one school/community to another and the nature of their student population.
This issue is probably best viewed not thru the prism of schools in general but more viewed based on the realities of challenges and issues as they relate to this specific school. Are the number of fights, suspensions, insubordination incidents etc less or greater than the county norm. Is it a safe environment with little issues related to student safety etc. Is it?
I don't have a problem with most police officers, but this guy was young — way too young to have teenagers of his own — and body slamming that young teen was just way over the line. This is just flat out wrong. There is no excuse for his actions. I would be beyond livid if my kid was treated this way.
If my daughter was randomly picked out of a crowd and slammed to the ground, I'd be livid. If my daughter ignored a request from a teacher, school administrator or police officer to stop fighting, physically resisted their attempts to restrain them and as a result was slammed to the ground, I'd be more livid with her.
What do you know about the situation or student that allows you to jump to your conclusion?
If my daughter was randomly picked out of a crowd and slammed to the ground, I'd be livid. If my daughter ignored a request from a teacher, school administrator or police officer to stop fighting, physically resisted their attempts to restrain them and as a result was slammed to the ground, I'd be more livid with her.
What do you know about the situation or student that allows you to jump to your conclusion?
What if she got brain damage from her head hitting the concrete? I bet you'd be lawyered up in less time than it took for me to write this post.
I have no problem with an SRO or police in general. However, they are human and aren't always 100% correct in the decisions they make in tense situations. They are trained better and are expected to be better than a teacher or administrator in handling a situation like this, so it shouldn't excuse them when they using excessive force to try to control a situation. There's the saying "trying to crack an egg with a sledgehammer" or something similar.
I believe if the officer had used a defensive maneuver like an arm bar or a rear pull-down on this particular student to control the situation, this probably wouldn't be an issue.
I think it simply comes down to this individual officer and not much else. The officer is trained and instructed to use force to gain control of situations. The officer used force, but from all the information we have so far, it appears to many that the force used was excessive. To me, there is little else that could be revealed that would make me believe the situation warranted this type of force. I don't think people can say it should be justified simply by saying "women fight dirty". I don't think the SRO should lose his job or the school system remove SROs from all schools. It doesn't mean that this cop is "dirty" or incompetent. He made a mistake in handling a situation. It doesn't mean he'll make another mistake the next time he's needed.
Thankfully ,for all parties involved, the girl didn't crack her skull open or break her neck when she was slammed down.
Last edited by michealbond; 01-06-2017 at 09:29 AM..
What do you know about the situation or student that allows you to jump to your conclusion?
I know how big she is and how big he is and I have read the law in North Carolina. If he can't hold her w/o body slamming her, he's not doing his job. She is a small slightly built teenage girl, not a big football player. He's a grown man. He should be able to hold her back — if she even needed that — without resorting to violence himself.
AGAIN, note that the school teacher and administrators were able to separate the kids who were fighting w/o resorting to violence. They did not body slam the girl in the pink with the yellow backpack or the girl in the dark red. They did not give them concussions. They practiced proper restraint. A police officer in a school should ABSOLUTELY be trained in physical restraint holds and only use that unless someone's life is in danger.
(8) "Physical restraint" means the use of physical force to restrict the free movement of all or a portion of a student's body.
Quote:
(c) Physical Restraint:
(1) Physical restraint of students by school personnel shall be considered a reasonable use of force when used in the following circumstances:
a. As reasonably needed to obtain possession of a weapon or other dangerous objects on a person or within the control of a person.
b. As reasonably needed to maintain order or prevent or break up a fight.
If my daughter ignored a request from a teacher, school administrator or police officer to stop fighting, physically resisted their attempts to restrain them and as a result was slammed to the ground, I'd be more livid with her.
That being said, an LEO response should be scaled to the the circumstance/threat. Slamming a kid onto a concrete floor (with the risk of life threatening injury) is not an appropriate reaction to ignoring a request.
If the kid was waving a gun or knife, yes, that is an immediate deadly threat to surrounding people and the officer that has to be neutralized. That student was not an immediate, deadly threat. Removing her from the situation did not require slamming her on the floor.
I believe if the officer had used a defensive maneuver like an arm bar or a rear pull-down on this particular student to control the situation, this probably wouldn't be an issue.
Exactly. And if in simply trying to get her away using those tactics, she had fallen to the ground and even been injured or whatever, I would be 100% on the side of the officer and too bad so sad for the girl. But the minute he picked her up he had absolute physical control over her and he didn't need to slam her down. Does the guy need to go to jail over it? IMO no. But he probably needs more training and or be in a different job where remaining cool and collected is not as important.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
