Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This has been said before and it makes absolutely no sense. If you are traveling from say, non-isolated Los Angeles to non-isolated New York, it still takes 5 or more hours flying time. Maybe more actually because it would probably take longer to get to and from the airports and through security in these cities. It takes pretty much a day, door to door, to fly from one coast to the other, no matter where you're going. So how, exactly, is Portland isolated?
Having lived in LA and now in Portland, Portland is more isolated as far as travelling east goes. It doesn't take as long to fly from LA to the east coast as from Portland because most every flight from Portland has to stop for a layover, often in places not really on the way (i.e. Dallas or even Seattle). Additionally, there are fewer flight options and tickets cost more. Flying to NYC the difference isn't as big because of the size of the NYC market but try flying to DC, Chicago, Detroit or Boston.
Having lived in LA and now in Portland, Portland is more isolated as far as travelling east goes. It doesn't take as long to fly from LA to the east coast as from Portland because most every flight from Portland has to stop for a layover, often in places not really on the way (i.e. Dallas or even Seattle). Additionally, there are fewer flight options and tickets cost more. Flying to NYC the difference isn't as big because of the size of the NYC market but try flying to DC, Chicago, Detroit or Boston.
There are numerous flights direct from PDX to Chicago. That's the route I took when I visited NYC. Direct flight from Portland, stop in Chicago, then on to La Guardia. Call me crazy, but I think Chicago's on the way to NYC.
But yeah, imagine that, it's slightly easier to fly out of LA across the country than out of PDX. Wow. Who'da thunkit?
Lemme guess, LA has way more nightlife options than Portland, too, huh?
"I don't understand these people who move from Boston or NY or LA to Portland, notice the huge differences, and then complain about them."
There are good and bad things about everywhere. There are good things about the PNW. But there are bad things that are not generally known, and are also kind of hilarious. Now that I live in Eugene and not Seattle, the bad things are funnier because the good things are more prominent. If you're going to move here, getting the slower, quieter pace of life in the smaller cities is definitely the way to get the most bang for your buck.
Sayuita, you're kinda proving my point here. The isolation of Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland is just a fact. Look at a map. If you live in NYC or LA, there's a lot within 5 hours *driving distance.* You bring up this obvious fact about physical reality to PNW-boosters and they flip out and start talking about outdoor recreation opportunities. Camping is awesome, yes, but it's really critical that people grasp that there is very little else here.
The other thing about the huge differences is that other than cost of living and, again, outdoor recreation, NONE OF THEM ARE POSITIVE FOR AN URBAN DWELLER. And this is where the "hick" characterization comes up again - people from this area just don't get this because with the exception of a very small group of Portlanders they're not multigenerational city people. (The equivalent families in Seattle moved to the suburbs in the 70s to avoid bussing.) There are some real cultural differences at work here and the public face of Seattle and Portland fool people from other cities into thinking that there is going to be a certain quality of urban life that the area just does not and cannot sustain because of the low population and geographical distance, without even getting to the cultural issues.
This is a great place to live if you're a certain kind of person. Big fish in a small pond types are very happy here. If I wanted to farm, but I was politically liberal, I would move here. A lot of tech people find that this area really suits them. But if you have certain expectations of city life, omg, you need to be warned. It might still be a good choice for you but people need to make the choice with their eyes open.
Last edited by stuckinseattle; 08-19-2011 at 08:56 PM..
What isn't positive for an urban dweller? I would really like to know, as I'm moving to Portland.
It's true that the East Coast is quite developed, but I wouldn't characterize Vancouver as being isolated-feeling (I don't have much experience with Portland). I found it pretty congested... loved it though. And then there's Victoria only a ferry ride away...
Vancouver is the most cosmopolitan of the three, definitely, because of all the educated immigrants and because of its different status in relation to Canada as compared to Seattle and Portland's status in the US.
I like Portland, it's just hella small. The *big* differences have to do with the insular local culture and the lack of standards. Portlandia is basically a documentary. There is a lot that is incredibly charming about Portland, though, it's not a bad place. I wouldn't advise against moving there for love or a career opportunity - I would in the case of Seattle.
The PNW in general is a fine place to live if you are somewhat introverted and can make your own fun. If you are a highly social person though, and if you like to live in a place where there is an actual society of other humans, and if you are dependent on your employer, I would at least make sure that you live here on a trial basis and don't let go of your home base until you are totally sure you can hack it. There are a LOT of unhappy people in the PNW who didn't realize how hard the winters would be, how closed off and cold the people are, and just generally how far up the backend of everything this part of the world is.
I am sorry, but I have had no problem making friends. I find that you make your life what you want it to be. If you are social then you will go out of your way to be friendly to your neighbors or people you meet at work or at the park or rec center etc. If you are comfortable being an intravert, then you will not want to be so friendly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I don't see what you see in the PNW. The only thing I can say is it does get pretty cold up here in the winter time and most people tend to stay in doors. I find since I have been here (4 yrs now) that most people will see their neighbors in the spring and say "Hey... how was your winter?" LOL. But you can still have a lot of fun doing in door activities with others. It is just how you view things. I for one, although a social person, tend to look forward to the winters as it seems to be an excuse to slow down a bit and not feel the pressure of having to go and do something every day. I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but for what ever reason is true for me.
"I don't understand these people who move from Boston or NY or LA to Portland, notice the huge differences, and then complain about them."
There are good and bad things about everywhere. There are good things about the PNW. But there are bad things that are not generally known, and are also kind of hilarious. Now that I live in Eugene and not Seattle, the bad things are funnier because the good things are more prominent. If you're going to move here, getting the slower, quieter pace of life in the smaller cities is definitely the way to get the most bang for your buck.
Sayuita, you're kinda proving my point here. The isolation of Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland is just a fact. Look at a map. If you live in NYC or LA, there's a lot within 5 hours *driving distance.* You bring up this obvious fact about physical reality to PNW-boosters and they flip out and start talking about outdoor recreation opportunities. Camping is awesome, yes, but it's really critical that people grasp that there is very little else here.
I was responding to a poster's comment that it took up a whole day to fly across the country from Portland. I pointed out that it takes the same time to fly to the east coast from LA as it does from Portland.
As to 5 hours driving distance, you are correct. We are more isolated compared to those big cities. But I'd venture to say that when people DO drive out of those places many of them are headed for somewhere with less "city". Like the beach or mountains. But if you're an URBAN DWELLER, what would be the draw to drive to another urban area, even if you could in less than 5 hours? What would San Diego have that you couldn't find in LA, other than maybe different stores to shop in?
Camping is awesome, yes, but it's really critical that people grasp that there is very little else here.
LMAO!
Okay, just consider the source you're hearing these reviews from. Portland is the 23rd biggest metropolitan area in the most "metropolitan" country in the world (and it's within 2.5 hours of a much bigger metro area), yet this guy calls it "hella small" (thanks for the sophisticated, book-learnin' language, stuck).
Portland is not a huge city, but it qualifies as a medium-to-large city by any measure.
I live in Bend, 3 hours from Portland, where 80,000 people call home, and my wife and I both love art, indpendent films, book stores, fine dining, etc. We never have a lack of options. I suppose if I were a swinging single looking for a job as a free-lance magazine photographer, I'd hate it here, but then again, I'd be stupid for living here.
Listen to the advice from everyone, and again, consider the sources. People immigrating to Portland from LA or NYC have zero perspective on the area, and in many cases, they pollute the area. LIterally and figuratively.
If you think Portland (or the PNW in general) is insular and hickish, GTFO. Go enjoy your urine-drenched subways or your 3-hour, 20-mile commutes. I prefer clean air, and a nice hybrid of culture and outdoor activities.
Another thing about Oregonians that Californians and some eastcoasters don't understand is that 50 degrees and light rain is not bad weather. It's actually ideal, because the crowds are gone. Get a flu shot, buy a windbreaker and some boots, and go out and enjoy what the area has to offer. Above all, stop whining. Nothing will make you feel more "insulated" from people than your own propensity to whine.
I really don't understand the misplaced hostility, Oreegone. I am moving to Portland from NYC and I hardly consider myself someone who pollutes the world. Also, how is someone supposed to get perspective on Portland when we're not even supposed to go there?
Unfortunately, you are embodying some of the provincialism that others seem to complain about. I would never tell anyone to "GTFO" New York. People can go wherever they want... and well they should.
I really don't understand the misplaced hostility, Oreegone. I am moving to Portland from NYC and I hardly consider myself someone who pollutes the world. Also, how is someone supposed to get perspective on Portland when we're not even supposed to go there?
Unfortunately, you are embodying some of the provincialism that others seem to complain about. I would never tell anyone to "GTFO" New York. People can go wherever they want... and well they should.
Perhaps try reading my post again, this time without anticipating personal attacks. I was referring to the negative nancy who referred to us Oregonians as "hicks", not you.
Personally, I don't think the best way to endear yourself to the natives of a new state is to paint them all with one insulting slur. But that's just me. Yes, I know, very "provincial" of me to object to all my fellow Oregonians being insulted by a NY import.
And I didn't say "all" eastcoasters and Californians pollute the area. I said "in some cases." Yes, I know we're all a bunch of uneducated rubes out here, but at least we can read.
You're telling me that if I hopped onto a NYC message board, and called all New Yorkers "arrogant snobs" or "crude, uneducated dolts" or something, then went on to formulate a laundry list of complaints about the area, you wouldn't have some choice words for me? Doubt it. I've been to NYC, they don't mince words. Actually one of the things I admired about the people there.
Ironically, some of the most rural, hickish and disturbingly impoverished areas of the country I've ever seen were in upstate NY. For any eastcoasters to label OR would be incredibly hypocritical.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
