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Well this is more than one thing but one thing is clear. The West is trying to break Russia down by any means possible. I don't know why they want to do that. I don't think any right thinking person not woke that is could not agree with what Putin said in his speech about what is happening to the values in the West. Just take a good look at who is in Biden's administration. I wouldn't want too many of them around my grandchildren.
Well this is more than one thing but one thing is clear. The West is trying to break Russia down by any means possible. I don't know why they want to do that. I don't think any right thinking person not woke that is could not agree with what Putin said in his speech about what is happening to the values in the West. Just take a good look at who is in Biden's administration. I wouldn't want too many of them around my grandchildren.
Well, they do.
Perhaps if you study the situation you will understand it. It has a lot to do with destroying "mad dog" countries. The alternative, you know, is to allow the mad dog country to roam the world at will, killing whoever it pleases and threatening those who object with nuclear weapons.
Probably if Ukrainian, Georgian or Farsi was your first language you would understand better.
Well this is more than one thing but one thing is clear. The West is trying to break Russia down by any means possible. I don't know why they want to do that. I don't think any right thinking person not woke that is could not agree with what Putin said in his speech about what is happening to the values in the West. Just take a good look at who is in Biden's administration. I wouldn't want too many of them around my grandchildren.
russia is a pariah nation who deserves to be brought into the world of peace and cooperation by someone other than demonic evil Putin..Putin needs to be blown to bits..and who better to do this unenviable task except the most powerful country in the world?..somebody's gotta do it..
There were more than 8 million ethnic-Russians living in Ukraine prior to the coup, and 15 million Russian speakers. That is roughly the population of Sweden and Norway combined. Why is it so hard to believe the people there, who voted overwhelmingly for Yanukovych, who have strong ties to Russia, and who speak Russian, would want to break away from the Kiev government after a coup?
Western agencies have been operating inside the Donbas for years, on both sides of the border. They've talked to the people there. Even on the Kiev side of the Donbas, there was significant support for Russia. Even Arestovych said that pro-Russian politicians were a significant force in the Ukrainian government, and that if the Zelensky Regime can't provoke a war with Russia, Ukraine will eventually rejoin Russia.
It isn't like Ukraine was some kind of wonderland. It's per-capita GDP(PPP) is half that of Russia. It is the most corrupt country in Europe, a police-state, and a warzone. Who wouldn't want out of Ukraine?
PS: Before the war, Winterfall8324 linked me a video from Vice News. He said to fast-forward to 12:40.
This isn't Ukraine vs Russia. This is a Ukrainian Civil War which also involves millions of Russians, on land that was historically Russian. The lines on the map don't mean anything. You people aren't helping Ukrainians. You're killing them. All because some Ukrainian oligarchs were paid off by America to use the Ukrainian people as cannon fodder to fight Russia.
The last part of this post is telling.
The fact that a lot of people here who claim to support Ukraine have, since late February, dismissed posts mentioning Maidan and the violence perpetrated by the Ukrainians who took power then against both fellow Ukrainians and then against Donbass Russians tell me that they don't really care about Ukraine per se. They just despise Russia for whatever reason and are all too glad that Ukrainian troops are being used as the means with which to make Russia bleed. If Ukrainians - whether it's combatants or civilians - die in the process, they don't really care, all their outrage about civilian loss of life notwithstanding.
This is a proxy war and it would not have happened if President Yakunovych's victory had been allowed to stand back in 2013-2014. Likewise, had the west not gotten involved (this involves Obama), Crimea would not have had a referendum and it would to this day be under Ukrainian control.
Listening to a podcast on the France-Prussian war circa 1870ish and started laughing when they talked about how the French army was ill-equipped due to corruption and embezzlement by generals etc. and many other history-repeating issues like logistics problems, chaotic mobilization and poor reserves.
All of that conspired to under-performing to capability.
Well this is more than one thing but one thing is clear. The West is trying to break Russia down by any means possible. I don't know why they want to do that.
If Russia had not invaded a sovereign nation, none of this would be happening. No shipping of western military hardware to Ukraine. No western economic sanctions on Russia. It's not that hard to understand - we don't want to see a reconstitution of the Soviet empire. We don't want a repeat of what happened in the last century, when the Baltic states, eastern Europe and central Asia were absorbed into a "greater Russia" under dictatorial leadership.
People despise Russia because Russia invaded a sovereign country. Ukraine's problems are for Ukraine to fix, not Russia.
Oh, I'm sure do, after all. There are people aplenty who get their news from TV and believe this Ukraine-Russia problem began on the day President Putin's special military operation got underway. Without a grasp of the historical background, it's all too easy to blame Russia.
That said, there are some people, including posters on this thread, who want Russia to suffer out of spite and animus. Even if this means everyday Russian civilians who have no responsibility for whatever is and has been hapening suffer as well.
And when some of those problems affect ethnic Russians living in the Donbass, it's not just Ukraine's problem. And another problem existed because OF Ukraine's government - its refusal to abide by the Minsk Agreements. Kiev was a signatory; had it complied with the terms of those Agreements, which it said it would, Donbass would to this day remained under Ukrainian political control.
In that sense, Zelensky was absolutely not virtuous.
Not to Russia, anyway. They have no respect for borders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
You people aren't helping Ukrainians. You're killing them.
Correction. Russia is killing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
All because some Ukrainian oligarchs were paid off by America to use the Ukrainian people as cannon fodder to fight Russia.
.
The Ukrainian people seem to be quite motivated to fight back against Russia. They don't need to be bribed to defend their freedom. Unlike young Russian men, fleeing the country to avoid the draft, or deserting their units when they reach Ukraine because they can't understand what the hell they are doing there killing civilians.
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