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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.64%
No 257 50.69%
Unsure 49 9.66%
Voters: 507. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-11-2024, 07:18 PM
 
26,922 posts, read 22,820,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
And the Presidents of Russia, Ukraine, Belorus and 1 or 2 others sat down together and all declared their independence of the USSR. And when Ukraine gave up nukes, Russia signed a treaty to respect their territorial integrity.



And as long as Ukraine remained free and independent country, its territorial integrity was respected.

But once it became American/NATO puppet ( they were not independent any longer,) that's when the problem arose.
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Old 01-11-2024, 08:04 PM
 
1,200 posts, read 427,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
And as long as Ukraine remained free and independent country, its territorial integrity was respected.

But once it became American/NATO puppet ( they were not independent any longer,) that's when the problem arose.
Russia doesn't get to tell another sovereign country what they can and can't do.
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Old 01-11-2024, 08:06 PM
 
26,922 posts, read 22,820,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sim_Mister View Post
Russia doesn't get to tell another sovereign country what they can and can't do.

"Another sovereign country" - no. But American puppet is a whole different thing.
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Old 01-11-2024, 09:33 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,458 posts, read 7,073,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
They don't care about "toxic" - they keep on going.

There was today's video; the young woman is crying somewhere in Western Ukraine - wherever she was going with her husband, he was pulled out from his car by the army at some check point, and taken in unknown direction for conscription. All communication between them was prohibited from that point on. She was left in a car with a child in the middle of nowhere. She was frantic, not knowing what to do next, so she posted her video describing her situation on the social media. The next thing that happened, the Putin's KGB ( sorry, Ukrainian SBU) dragged her in their office, accusing her in "working for Russia," and forcing her to make public apologies.
Awful. You really have to search to find videos or reports that mention the human cost of this war on both sides, but especially that of Ukraine. I can only assume it's because it's a fight between two predominately white nations.
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Old 01-11-2024, 09:36 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,458 posts, read 7,073,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sim_Mister View Post
Russia doesn't get to tell another sovereign country what they can and can't do.
Why? America does ALL THE TIME. America would never let Russia set up shop near its borders the way NATO (i.e. US) was doing in Ukraine. That was true during the Cuban missile crisis and it is true now.

Russia is a great power with, I believe, the world's largest nuclear arsenal.
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Old 01-11-2024, 09:38 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,458 posts, read 7,073,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
And as long as Ukraine remained free and independent country, its territorial integrity was respected.

But once it became American/NATO puppet ( they were not independent any longer,) that's when the problem arose.
Correct.
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Old 01-11-2024, 11:08 PM
 
1,200 posts, read 427,188 times
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Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Why? America does ALL THE TIME. America would never let Russia set up shop near its borders the way NATO (i.e. US) was doing in Ukraine. That was true during the Cuban missile crisis and it is true now.

Russia is a great power with, I believe, the world's largest nuclear arsenal.
With how well the upkeep their equipment, it probably will not even get off the ground.
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Old 01-12-2024, 05:40 AM
 
5,125 posts, read 2,802,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sim_Mister View Post
With how well the upkeep their equipment, it probably will not even get off the ground.
True. Just like the Russian hypersonic and other missiles, and drones cannot get off the ground to plaster Ukrainian targets. Those Patriot defense missiles that were given to Ukraine were a waste since they have not been needed because of the bad upkeep of Russian military equipment. Try as the Russians might, their missiles just won't fly properly and can't even get off the ground.
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Old 01-12-2024, 07:59 AM
 
79,238 posts, read 61,361,367 times
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Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
As to the arguments of Ukraine being part of Russia or not or what the UN says really doesn't matter. The "Might Makes Right" philosophy, just as was used to pry Texas out of Mexican hands and into American hands will be used in the case of the future status of Ukraine. If Ukraine wins this war it will remain an independent country and will return the Donbas area and Crimea into its fold. If Russia wins it will dictate its terms to a defeated Ukraine. To the victor go the spoils, no matter what is "proper" or not.
^^This. This is being decided by blood, guns and bombs.

I wish it weren't but that's reality.

I am concerned that like WW1, this will grind on and on and on because neither side is content to accept anything short of a big concession after suffering such huge losses.

It also goes to show how much treaties and agreements are worth.
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Old 01-12-2024, 08:45 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,797 posts, read 17,567,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Why? America does ALL THE TIME. America would never let Russia set up shop near its borders the way NATO (i.e. US) was doing in Ukraine. That was true during the Cuban missile crisis and it is true now.

Russia is a great power with, I believe, the world's largest nuclear arsenal.
Ukraine is not and was not part of NATO. NATO has never invaded another country with the intent of ruling it.

Russia's promotes itself with lies and propaganda. Obviously, as in your case, they are sometimes successful.
Russia is not a great country. They are a bully who went a step too far. They invaded a foreign country with the idea of ruling it, used both food and energy as weapons, even when they were making plenty of money the way things were.
The size of the Russian nuclear arsenal doesn't matter. We have seen the extent of their missile capabilities, seen the decimation of their army, and seen the corruption that has lead to the deterioration of nearly all infrastructure in Russia.
Nuclear weapons require regular maintenance. The chances that Russia has maintained their capability over the last 30 years is about zero.
Russia is a fraud. They will destroy themselves in Ukraine. They had no significant military victory for all of 2023.
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