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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 198 39.52%
No 254 50.70%
Unsure 49 9.78%
Voters: 501. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-18-2023, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Durham NC
5,252 posts, read 3,834,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Yeah, Russia is not known to honor treaties.
Well I gotta admit this thread is more amusing since I can see your posts again.
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Old 08-18-2023, 06:06 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,701 posts, read 17,471,207 times
Reputation: 37511
It was important to keep Great Britain the fight in 1940-early '41. Allowing them to lose would mean some sort of unification of Europe, with Germany calling the shots. Germany was set on world domination and had Europe fallen they may have succeeded.



It is important to keep Ukraine in the fight today, and for similar reasons. One of the ways I believe that will be done is by assisting Ukraine in destroying the Crimea Bridge. Without that bridge, Russian presence on Crimea will be almost impossible. Turkey is doing its job by preventing reinforcement of the Russian Black Sea fleet while Ukraine is slowly destroying the existing fleet.


F-16s have now been promised and pilots are being trained. Long range accurate artillery is becoming common and drone warfare is becoming advanced. In the end Russia will be constrained by a hardened border they have no hope of crossing. Demographics and economic isolation will do the rest and Russia will become irrelevant to Europe.
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Old 08-18-2023, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Durham NC
5,252 posts, read 3,834,264 times
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Putin stumbling over his words while reading the teleprompter. Oh wait...


https://twitter.com/TFMetals/status/...105419749?s=20
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Old 08-18-2023, 08:02 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,336 posts, read 108,561,117 times
Reputation: 116412
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers View Post
Putin stumbling over his words while reading the teleprompter. Oh wait...


https://twitter.com/TFMetals/status/...105419749?s=20
I haven't listened to it yet. But I read it:
Quote:
"I have already spoken to three US Presidents. They come and go, but politics stay the same at all times. Do you know why? Because of the powerful bureaucracy. When a person is elected, they may have some ideas. Then people with briefcases arrive, well dressed, wearing dark suits... These people start explaining how things are done. And instantly, everything changes. This is what happens with every administration." (2017)
About whom is he talking, here? This sort of reminds me of when Medvedev has been installed in the Presidency. I wonder; is he including his BFF The Donald in this scenario? This also reminds me of those Rocky-and-Bullwinkle cartoons (aka: Moose and Squirrel), the ones called "Fractured Fairytales".
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Old 08-18-2023, 08:39 AM
 
5,226 posts, read 3,162,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I haven't listened to it yet. But I read it:
About whom is he talking, here? This sort of reminds me of when Medvedev has been installed in the Presidency. I wonder; is he including his BFF The Donald in this scenario? This also reminds me of those Rocky-and-Bullwinkle cartoons (aka: Moose and Squirrel), the ones called "Fractured Fairytales".
There is more wisdom in those old Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons than the DNC and RNC combined. You mock Medvedev, yet what is Joe Biden other than a puppet/third term for Obama and his cadre?
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Old 08-18-2023, 09:02 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,701 posts, read 17,471,207 times
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It's about the F-16s
Russia has been targeting western Ukraine with missiles. The bases in western Ukraine will be the ones receiving the F-16s. So Russia is trying to disrupt things by damaging runways and facilities. The F-16, after all, needs a fairly long runway and sophisticated support facilities.
They are also trying to kill any pilots that may be selected to fly the F-16.
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Old 08-18-2023, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,752,135 times
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ISW Update 8/17/23

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...august-17-2023

Quote:
Aug 17, 2023 - Press ISW

“Vostok” Battalion commander Alexander Khodakovsky suggested that Russia freeze the war in Ukraine along the current frontlines, reintroducing a narrative that had been largely dormant since Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin’s armed rebellion. Khodakovsky stated that Russia will not be able to topple Ukraine militarily in the near term and that Russian forces are unlikely to easily occupy additional Ukrainian cities, echoing comments Prigozhin had made in April 2023. Khodakovsky concluded that Russia will likely have to come to a “truce” and that Russia may enter a phase “of neither peace nor war” with Ukraine. Khodakovsky suggested that Ukraine would be sufficiently weakened in this state of frozen conflict and that Russia would be able to exert more influence over Ukraine in such a situation than it currently can during the ”Special Military Operation.” Prigozhin’s April 14 essay suggested that Russia freeze the war in Ukraine to set conditions for a future victory without negotiations. Russian sources have periodically claimed that a Kremlin faction is interested in freezing the war along the current frontlines for similar reasons as well as over concerns about domestic political stability and the economic fallout from the war. Discussion of this narrative has waned with Prigozhin’s relative silence following Wagner’s June 24 rebellion and the arrest of ardent ultranationalist Igor Girkin, who routinely called on the Kremlin to resist the faction that aims to freeze the war.
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Old 08-18-2023, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Durham NC
5,252 posts, read 3,834,264 times
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When you have no leverage you don't get to negotiate you capitulate.
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Old 08-18-2023, 09:14 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 1,107,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers View Post
When you have no leverage you don't get to negotiate you capitulate.
I agree .....Putin will sooner or later have to capitulate .....
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Old 08-18-2023, 09:21 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 1,107,129 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
It's about the F-16s
Russia has been targeting western Ukraine with missiles. The bases in western Ukraine will be the ones receiving the F-16s. So Russia is trying to disrupt things by damaging runways and facilities. The F-16, after all, needs a fairly long runway and sophisticated support facilities.
They are also trying to kill any pilots that may be selected to fly the F-16.
That Putin is sure a swell guy....not...

Meanwhile .....I heard that the US will be giving the green light for Ukraine to receive longer range missiles...
similar to the kind they are already receiving from the UK and France....

This is good news ....Ukraine can and will be able to strike Russian ...supply lines and comand and control
centers....only thing that will be slowing them down is those pesky mines....
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