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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 207 39.81%
No 263 50.58%
Unsure 50 9.62%
Voters: 520. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-25-2023, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
15,716 posts, read 9,387,138 times
Reputation: 20620

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
And the rest of the world.
That doesn't matter. It would be suicide for Russia. Russia is an empire. They want to take over the world, not commit suicide. The nuclear threat from Russia is nothing but FUD, and you all know it.
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Old 06-25-2023, 04:05 PM
 
19,276 posts, read 27,972,769 times
Reputation: 20358
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
What other so called major military force uses convicts? But if you look back to WWII and the USSR it’s been done before. The real threat here to world peace is that Russia might use tactical nuclear weapons and then all hell will break out.



Ooops... always research before posting


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_military_unit


A penal military unit, also known as a penal formation, disciplinary unit, or just penal unit (usually named for their formation and size, such as penal battalion for battalions, penal regiment for regiments, penal company for companies, etc.), is a military formation consisting of convicts mobilized for military service. Such formations may consist of military prisoners convicted under military law, civilian prisoners convicted in civilian courts, prisoners of war who have chosen to side with their captors, or a combination of these groups.



During World War I, the British Armed Forces were mobilized for military service. Courts offered defendants the option of enlisting to avoid imprisonment, while young offenders in borstals and adult prisoners were granted early release for their service.


The period of military rearmament preceding World War II caused renewed interest in the concept of penal military units. In May 1935 the German Wehrmacht instituted a new policy under German conscription law that stated soldiers who were deemed disruptive to military discipline but were otherwise "worthy of service" would be sent to military penal units. Criminals were also conscripted into penal units in exchange for lighter sentences or as a form of stay of execution.[8] These units, referred to as "special departments" or the generic term Strafbataillon, were overseen by the German military police.



In the United States, the United States Armed Forces historically fielded penal units and permitted the enlistment of prisoners. During the American Civil War, the Union permitted Galvanized Yankees, Confederate prisoners of war who swore allegiance to the Union, into their ranks in penal units from 1862 to around 1866. During World War II, prisoners were permitted to provide to the war effort, and in 1942, it was reported that several prisoners had offered to enlist in the military to fight in the war, with some even receiving training ahead of enlistment, though no penal units are known to have been formed in the U.S. military.[17]
Well into the 20th century, U.S. courts offered defendants the choice between enlistment and prison, a practice that continued through both world wars and the Korean War until at least the Vietnam War;



For example, a U.S. military recruiter told The Daily Beast in 2018 that recruitment candidates can have "one non-violent felony as an adult", and that "some of the best and most capable candidates we get require a waiver".[21]



Ooops.. ooops...
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Old 06-25-2023, 04:09 PM
 
19,276 posts, read 27,972,769 times
Reputation: 20358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
That doesn't matter. It would be suicide for Russia. Russia is an empire. They want to take over the world, not commit suicide. The nuclear threat from Russia is nothing but FUD, and you all know it.


Will sure matter to you, when their missiles will come from the space.

Seriously. This is the silliest justification I read in long time.



And PLEASE, do me a favor and show, when Russia was trying to take over the world? The world. Like say GB, or Africa, or China, or Australia, or Americas? WHEN? Any concept of independent thinking, or, only repeating what CNN says?
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Old 06-25-2023, 04:29 PM
 
3,297 posts, read 1,661,623 times
Reputation: 2934
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Will sure matter to you, when their missiles will come from the space.

Seriously. This is the silliest justification I read in long time.

And PLEASE, do me a favor and show, when Russia was trying to take over the world? The world. Like say GB, or Africa, or China, or Australia, or Americas? WHEN? Any concept of independent thinking, or, only repeating what CNN says?
Never heard of Comintern?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_International

…to "struggle by all available means, including armed force, for the overthrow of the international bourgeoisie and the creation of an international Soviet republic as a transition stage to the complete abolition of the state".
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Old 06-25-2023, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
5,016 posts, read 2,783,577 times
Reputation: 7807
short update from the front lines..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0L5hxWxd2s
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Old 06-25-2023, 06:28 PM
 
5,742 posts, read 2,218,805 times
Reputation: 3895
Did we really try to buy out Prigozhin to overthrow Putin? I threw out this idea after Wagner captured Bachkmut, that our money would be better spent paying off Wagner group but that our special interests groups wouldn’t profit from that. Then the $6.2 billion accounting error was announced and shortly after this event happened. The Blinkin trip to China makes more sense now, they probably told Xi that Putin was about to be finished.

Maybe so, maybe not? Regardless, the results were disappointing, it was a weak coup attempt.
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Old 06-25-2023, 06:52 PM
 
3,297 posts, read 1,661,623 times
Reputation: 2934
Girkin did a pretty good job of seeing what was coming back in May…

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nt-may-27-2023

Former Russian officer and ardent nationalist Igor Girkin accused Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin of planning a coup against the current Russian leadership.

Girkin openly accused Prigozhin of planning to conduct a coup amid the upcoming Ukrainian counteroffensive and of continuously violating Russian censorship laws against the discreditation of the Russian army and military command.[19] Girkin warned of “mutiny” if Prigozhin is “allowed” to lead the Wagner Group. Girkin noted that Prigozhin ordered for the Wagner forces to withdraw to the Wagner bases deep inside of Russia on the eve of the Ukrainian counteroffensive.

He also claimed that Wagner personnel had never taken oaths promising not to engage in combat against Russia or its military.[20] Prigozhin stated on May 27 that Wagner will decide later on if it will fight in Ukraine or in another country, which indicates that Prigozhin retains the ability to command his own army outside of the formal Russian military command structure.[21]

Girkin also recently criticized the Russian military command for failing to address Prigozhin’s open and vulgar conflict with the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD), even warning that Prigozhin will “devour” the Russian military officials who “bet” in his favor as he seeks to increase his political power.[22]

A member of Girkin’s Angry Patriots Club claimed that the conflict between Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and Prigozhin is developing into a conflict between the Russian military and Wagner forces but that Putin is not paying attention.[23]

Girkin’s and his associates’ criticisms are largely consistent with Prigozhin’s continued prioritization of his own personal aims over those of the Russian Ministry of Defense and the broader operational situation near Bakhmut.[24] Prigozhin’s decision to withdraw his forces from Bakhmut and, apparently, from active combat on the eve of the Ukrainian counter-offensive is strategically questionable.
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Old 06-25-2023, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
5,016 posts, read 2,783,577 times
Reputation: 7807
Denys update...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh-mwPMMQPg
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Old 06-25-2023, 07:08 PM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,729,997 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Putin was probably getting 50%. That is why he was so upset when his criminal stooge fled the Ukrainian presidency.

Putin kidnaps children and murders their parents. And then BRAGS about it!!!
What Putin should do is nuke a couple Ukrainian cities and lay waste to everything and everyone in them.
And he should have done a 40 day continuous "shock & awe" air assualt on them right off. Bomb EVERYTHING for 6 straight weeks.

Then he could be considered "good" if he bragged about it...Right?

If they had accepted the Peace Agreements...none of this would be happening.
But the US/West/NATO looooooves war...so, we have what we have.
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Old 06-25-2023, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,768,036 times
Reputation: 3388
ISW Update 6/25/23

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...t-june-25-2023

Quote:
Jun 25, 2023 - Press ISW

Russian sources speculated on the specifics of the deal mediated by Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko to end the Wagner Group’s June 23-24 armed rebellion, including the possible involvement of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s chief of staff. Russian opposition outlet Meduza, citing unnamed internal Kremlin sources, reported that Prigozhin initially tried to get in touch with the Russian Presidential Administration midday June 24 as Wagner fighters moved north from Rostov-on-Don towards Moscow, but that Putin refused to speak with Prigozhin. Meduza noted that, once Prigozhin observed the lack of widespread military support for Wagner’s actions and changed his mind on Wagner’s prospects, the Kremlin turned to negotiations involving Lukashenko, Chief of Staff of the Russian Presidential Office Anton Vaino, and Russian Ambassador to Belarus Boris Gryzlov. Vaino and Gryzlov’s possible involvement was not reported on June 24. A prominent Kremlin-affiliated milblogger also questioned whether the deal will hold Wagner or Prigozhin accountable in any way for the deaths of at least 13 Russian airman on June 24. Prigozhin’s whereabouts cannot be verified beyond his departure from Rostov-on-Don late on June 24. Russian outlet RTVI claimed that Prigozhin’s press service told RTVI that Prigozhin “sends his regards” and will answer all questions “when he is on normal communication,” and a prominent Wagner-affiliated Telegram channel shared an AI-generated image of Prigozhin holding a finger to his lips and stating “plans love silence,” a copy of the phrase commonly used in Ukraine about operational security. As ISW noted on June 24, the specifics of the deal are still unclear in the open source beyond speculation and rumor. The fallout of Wagner’s armed rebellion has not yet concluded, and it remains to be seen how the deal will be implemented, if all involved parties will comply fully, how the Kremlin and Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) intend to do with Wagner personnel - and if Wagner fighters will cooperate, regardless of Prigozhin’s wishes.
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