Gibson guitar under seige (interstate, border, claims, propaganda)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Breitbart quotes from the article that is now missing.
One of Gibson’s leading competitors is C.F. Martin & Company. The C.E.O., Chris Martin IV, is a long-time Democratic supporter, with $35,400 in contributions to Democratic candidates and the DNC over the past couple of elections (though, to be fair, he did donate a whopping $750 to Republican Congressmen in the 90s.) According to C.F. Martin’s catalog, several of their guitars contain “East Indian Rosewood.” In case you were wondering, that is the exact same wood in at least ten of Gibson’s guitars.
Martin reportedly uses the same wood, but DOJ hasn’t raided them, leading to speculation that the Obama administration is sending a warning to Republican businessmen that they had better not oppose his re-election, lest they face criminal investigations. Normally such speculation would not be credible, but Eric Holder has politicized the Department of Justice to a point where such questions must be taken seriously.
Nobody wants to hear his speech. All it is going to say is SPEND, SPEND, SPEND on green energy and infrastructure. I might watch just to hear how he thinks he is going to put all Americans back to work. I'll be waiting for him to say that he is going to form labor camps. It's the only way he will be able to put everyone back to work.
Breitbart quotes from the article that is now missing.
One of Gibson’s leading competitors is C.F. Martin & Company. The C.E.O., Chris Martin IV, is a long-time Democratic supporter, with $35,400 in contributions to Democratic candidates and the DNC over the past couple of elections (though, to be fair, he did donate a whopping $750 to Republican Congressmen in the 90s.) According to C.F. Martin’s catalog, several of their guitars contain “East Indian Rosewood.” In case you were wondering, that is the exact same wood in at least ten of Gibson’s guitars.
Martin reportedly uses the same wood, but DOJ hasn’t raided them, leading to speculation that the Obama administration is sending a warning to Republican businessmen that they had better not oppose his re-election, lest they face criminal investigations. Normally such speculation would not be credible, but Eric Holder has politicized the Department of Justice to a point where such questions must be taken seriously.
Thank you for that post. Very interesting, and I enjoyed reading every word.
My flamenco guitar is a cypress body. It is said that the cypress body is what gives a flamenco guitar it's distinctive "flamenco sound" and it also produces less "sustain" which is what you want in a flamenco guitar otherwise the sound becomes "muddied". I have played flamenco on my vintage Alvarez (Brazilian Rosewood body) and it's true.
Of course, my Alhambra is still a "student guitar", but it still cost me $1,000 six years ago. I think they are up to about $1,300 or $1,400 now for the 7 Fc.
Thanks again for a very interesting post!
Yes, it is interesting to know what is behind a guitar.
These days there are countless Les Paul clones out there, many cost just a few hundred dollars. And since most players only play for fun, they will do the trick.
Gibson are quite expensive, it is an elite product basically. Just like a good Fender they seem overpriced, frankly.
After doing some research, I see this stems from the Lacey Act contained in the Farm Bill from 2008 - which will get the standard refrain - Bush did it.
Take note - Bush vetoed the bill, but the veto was overridden by the Democrat Senate.
There has been a lot of talk about this for years in the musical community. Believe me, it ain't gonna happen!
Gibson is owned by 2 people- Henry and his partner. They have both vowed that the Gibson name will never go overseas over and over.
There is no reason why they would move out, either. The Gibson brand is most valuable right here. Gibson means 'American' to all the world, and as many Gibson guitars are sold overseas as here. I don't know where the current production is going- it may be more overseas than domestic right now.
They already own a factory in China. Before that factory was built, they tried to buy Sammick, the largest music factory in Korea, but the Koreans blew out on the deal. They own several British music amplifier companies. They own a Canadian guitar factory, and several other small guitar companies in the U.S. They also own the Baldwin Piano Co. and it's divisions.
They could move the Gibson brand to any of those country anytime they want, but they never will. They supply lots of cheap guitars built elsewhere, but the Gibsons are the Cadillacs of their fleet.
The Gibson Co. has a long history of taking on all comers. It is the only stringed instrument company in the world that has produced acoustic guitars, electric guitars, banjos, mandolins, amplifiers, steel guitars, strings, ukuleles, and basses with equal success. They pioneered many of these products, and no other manufacturer has a list half as long. The Gibson banjos and mandolins are the most copied in the world, and have been the standard that every other manufacturer aspires to beat for over 80 years.
Mandolin players fork over $175,000 or more these days for a 1924 Gibson F-5 mandolin. A 1964 Les Paul Standard goes for $185,000, a 1935 Gibson Granada flathead 5-string banjo goes for $80,000, and those instruments don't even have to be in mint condition to fetch the price. That's the power of the Gibson brand.
Their main electric guitar competitor, Fender Guitars, has produced 2 iconic guitars- the Telecaster and the Stratocaster. In comparison, Gibson has produced at least 8 that are icons- the Les Paul, the SG, ES335, Super 400, ES 175, ES150, Flying V, and Explorer.
Fender made it's reputation in two major types of music- Rock and Country. Gibson made it's reputation in Rock, Jazz (including Swing, Bebop and every form of Jazz), Country, Pop, Bluegrass and Latin.
Take it to the bank that Gibson will ever shut down in the United States. Those products constitute a large part of what the world considers "Made In The United States" is.
Sorry to nitpick but Ive never heard of a 1964 Les Paul???
I thought they were discontinued in approx 1960 and were re introduced in 1968?
The 1958 thru 1960 les paul "bursts" are highly collectible usually selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars
After doing some research, I see this stems from the Lacey Act contained in the Farm Bill from 2008 - which will get the standard refrain - Bush did it.
Take note - Bush vetoed the bill, but the veto was overridden by the Democrat Senate.
The bill actually amends the Lacy Act of 1981, and also incorporates the CITES Treaty under Section 8204 "Prevention of Illegal Logging Practices" in the bill you cited.
Quote:
‘‘(3) EXCEPTIONS TO APPLICATION OF EXCLUSIONS.—The exclusions made by subparagraphs (B) and (C) of paragraph (2) do not apply if the plant is listed—
‘‘(A) in an appendix to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora[emphasis added] (27 UST 1087; TIAS 8249);
‘‘(B) as an endangered or threatened species under the Endangered Species Act of 1973 (16 U.S.C. 1531 et seq.); or
‘‘(C) pursuant to any State law that provides for the conservation of species that are indigenous to the State and are threatened with extinction.’’.
Source: H.R. 2419, Section 8204(a), page 369.
The amendments to the Lacy Act of 1981 also appear on pages 369 through page 372. I can certainly see why the bill was vetoed. This goes well beyond the CITES Treaty by attempting to enforce not international law, but the laws of foreign nations.
Quote:
(b) PROHIBITED ACTS.—
(1) OFFENSES OTHER THAN MARKING. — Section 3(a) of the Lacey Act Amendments of 1981 (16 U.S.C. 3372(a)) is amended—
...
‘‘(iii) taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any limitation under any law or regulation of any State, or under any foreign law, governing the export or transshipment of plants; or’’; and
(B) in paragraph (3), by striking subparagraph (B) and inserting the following subparagraph:
‘‘(B) to possess any plant—
‘‘(i) taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of any State, or any State, or any foreign law, that protects plants or that regulates—
‘‘(I) the theft of plants;
‘‘(II) the taking of plants from a park, forest reserve, or other officially protected area;
‘‘(III) the taking of plants from an officially designated area; or
‘‘(IV) the taking of plants without, or contrary to, required authorization;
‘‘(ii) taken, possessed, transported, or sold without the payment of appropriate royalties, taxes, or stumpage fees required for the plant by any law or regulation of any State or any foreign law; or
‘‘(iii) taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any limitation under any law or regulation of any State, or under any foreign law, governing the export or transshipment of plants; or’’; and
...
Source: H.R. 2419, Section 8204(b), page 370.
It is ludicris to assume the federal government has the authority to enforce any foreign law. Where there is an agreement between the US and those nations with export bans, the CITES Treaty include the laws the US should be enforcing, only those treaties that have been ratified, and no others. US law enforcement should be enforcing US law, exclusively. Which includes ratified treaties.
To expect anyone to abide by every law on the planet - local, federal, and foreign is beyond insane. It is deliberately stupid.
Gibson’s CEO Henry E. Juszkiewicz is a Republican donor. But the CEO of C.F. Martin & Company — one of Gibson’s main competitors and another user of the “East Indian Rosewood” — is a big Democratic donor.
This whole raid really is that simple.
"Punish your enemies, and reward your friends" - Barrack Hussein Oboma
Indian rosewood can be exported legally from India if it's 6mm thick or less. The rosewood Gibson ordered was falsely labelled as veneer when it was in fact 10mm thick boards not veneer and illegal to export from India.
The last raid on them was over ebony from an severely threatened type of ebony tree in Madagascar which was blatantly illegal to have cut and imported.
Gibson is greedy and flagrantly breaking laws intended to protect species that are threatened with extinction if the illegal logging is not stopped.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
at the NFL season opener's half-time. 
