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What you "consider" it is not really relevant either. Point is.... it is still work to be done. And is no harder, or easier, than many jobs people do. These are all life and career choices whether one likes it or not.
And while emotional investment does of course "matter" that was not my point. It mattering does not change the fact that your investment in it had nothing to do with the users point you were replying to.
If you're not getting paid you do not have a job. It's nonsense that some people try to align raising children with having a job/career. My husband and I have split schedules so our daughter doesn't have to be in daycare all day. It's really hard on both of us. That doesn't mean it's a job. Well, at least not to me.
Not all jobs are "paid". Many people do voluntary work for example. They are still jobs. So your attempt to define "job" that way does not really work either. Some dictionaries suggest you have to be paid, others do not. Simple as that really.
Some people do it full time (raising children). Some people as you mention split it so both parents are working, both parents do child care, and this is often supplemented with child care and the like.
At the end of the day its all "career choice". One looks at ones resources and capabilities and time.... one looks at the money gained by employment or lost by doing full time child care and house keeping at home..... and many other factors. And one makes a career choice at the end of the day.
You personally might not want to call it "work" or a "job" but people on this thread and elsewhere do.... and it certainly is not "lounging around doing nothing". It is called houseWORK for a reason
As for declaring work to be mostly a waste of time aside from the income aspect.... you have my sympathy if this is how you feel about your career or your partners. I certainly do not feel this way about my work. I enjoy it. It gets as much from me as I do from it. And I quite like that I somewhat better the world through it. I guess there is a saying which applies to how I feel about my work.... and probably how you feel about child rearing.... which is "Find a man a job he loves.... and he will never 'work' a day in his life".
I'm a hospice volunteer and no, it's not a job. To imply as much is absurd. It is a gift.
Second, being a mother is no more a job than being a wife. I do not consider feeding my child or sex with my husband as aspects of a job. If it is for you, you have my limited sympathy.
Regarding the importance of my career. I have found since having my child it has fallen in the priority list. It's meaningless in "comparison" to raising my child. I do like the fact that my work as a medical scientist contributes to the aiding of at least some people in the world, but my kid matters 100 fold more. I would never reduce my role as her mother to that of a job. If that's how you feel about your kid, all well for him/her.
So because you picked ONE volunteer position.... out of the innumerable ones out there.... and PERSONALLY refuse to call it a "job".... my point is absurd.
Riiiiight.
People do the same role and get paid for it. How is it any more.... or less.... of a job..... just because you enjoy it??? Are you even _trying_ to make sense anymore? Are you suggesting the people who do similar work to this, but are paid for it, have no jobs? It is either a job, or it is not, and you not being paid for it does not stop it being one.
So because you picked ONE volunteer position.... out of the innumerable ones out there.... and PERSONALLY refuse to call it a "job".... my point is absurd.
Riiiiight.
Do you have any experience volunteering? Or being a parent? Being a volunteer is not like having a job. I have volunteered at the science museum as a teacher, for various foundations to either walk, cheer, or direct runners during events, and for clean ups. Volunteering your time to either learn or to help with a cause you are passioate about is not in the same vein as doing a job you would not otherwise do unless you are paid.
Sorry, but I call bull on this.
Quote:
People do the same role and get paid for it. How is it any more.... or less.... of a job..... just because you enjoy it??? Are you even _trying_ to make sense anymore? Are you suggesting the people who do similar work to this, but are paid for it, have no jobs? It is either a job, or it is not, and you not being paid for it does not stop it being one.
Prostitues sex men and wives sex their husbands. By your logic they are one in the same. Your position is full of fail.
I'm a hobby photographer. I gift my pictures to family members. Guess I have a job as a photographer. No diference whatsoever.
I'm a hospice volunteer and no, it's not a job. To imply as much is absurd. It is a gift.
Second, being a mother is no more a job than being a wife. I do not consider feeding my child or sex with my husband as aspects of a job. If it is for you, you have my limited sympathy.
Regarding the importance of my career. I have found since having my child it has fallen in the priority list. It's meaningless in "comparison" to raising my child. I do like the fact that my work as a medical scientist contributes to the aiding of at least some people in the world, but my kid matters 100 fold more. I would never reduce my role as her mother to that of a job. If that's how you feel about your kid, all well for him/her.
I understand what you are saying. I love my kids, I love spending time with them and I love teaching them the things that I think they need to know. As a father, I would love to stay home with my kids but that isn't really practical for my situation and it never will be. What I was trying to convey is simply that I don't think that the work of being a mother (or a stay at home parent, inclusively) should ever be discounted.
Any way you slice it, the mother is the root of the family and culture tends to flow through maternal lines to a much greater extent than through fathers. Whether you consider being a stay-at-home mother a job or something better or worse isn't something that I intended to challenge in any way; rather, I meant to express that it's very important and is really no less demanding or rewarding (and probably moreso on both accounts) than a career.
I understand what you are saying. I love my kids, I love spending time with them and I love teaching them the things that I think they need to know. As a father, I would love to stay home with my kids but that isn't really practical for my situation and it never will be. What I was trying to convey is simply that I don't think that the work of being a mother (or a stay at home parent, inclusively) should ever be discounted.
Any way you slice it, the mother is the root of the family and culture tends to flow through maternal lines to a much greater extent than through fathers. Whether you consider being a stay-at-home mother a job or something better or worse isn't something that I intended to challenge in any way; rather, I meant to express that it's very important and is really no less demanding or rewarding (and probably moreso on both accounts) than a career.
I hope that's clear.
I hear you and agree. I would stay home as well if it was practical for our family. My husband gets to be home with our daughter all morning and early afternoon and that is his privaledge, however hard. Plenty of dads would love that opportunity. That's the difference; we would not work if we weren't paid. We wouldn't sacrifice precious, fleeting time away from our kids. It 's just a necessity of life.
As far as people discounting SAHPs go as well as those who have something to say about any parental situation. Our families are our own business, not theres.
Do you have any experience volunteering? Or being a parent?
Lots. Of both. Yes. Relevance?
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
I have volunteered at the science museum as a teacher
My point exactly. So people who actually are PAID teachers at the museum do not have a job then? Or just you because it was not paid? Are you really using PAY as the defining barrier between whether the work you do volunteering is a job or not? As I said.... SOME dictionaries agree with you, some do not. Simple as that.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
Sorry, but I call bull on this.
As do I on your nonsense.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
Your position is full of fail.
No thats just yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
I'm a hobby photographer. I gift my pictures to family members. Guess I have a job as a photographer. No diference whatsoever.
To you maybe but I see many. You are just engaged in reductio ad adsurdum now and defending yourself even worse than you did on your "Parental absence causes harm" thread which you ran away from. And I did not think it possible to defend a position worse than you did there.
Hobbys and relationships sexually with your partner are something you do for yourself. Hobbies are not jobs, career choices or work. Volunteer WORK is something you are doing for someone else. Teaching science in a museum is work, a job, for an employer and/or manager.... regardless of whether you are paid for it or not.
To you maybe but I see many. You are just engaged in reductio ad adsurdum now and defending yourself even worse than you did on your "Parental absence causes harm" thread which you ran away from. And I did not think it possible to defend a position worse than you did there.
I have always respected you and your posts. This is a lesson learned. I did not run away. I was confronted by another poster as being a last word rub. I didn't want to be that person and it was just going in circles any ways. But, thanks for the insults.
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Hobbys and relationships sexually with your partner are something you do for yourself. Hobbies are not jobs, career choices or work. Volunteer WORK is something you are doing for someone else. Teaching science in a museum is work, a job, for an employer and/or manager.... regardless of whether you are paid for it or not.
Volunteer work is something you do for yourself as well. So is working for that matter. That does not differentiate the point you are trying to make, which I really don't understand.
I think we all know very well what is meant when people speak of having a job, looking for a job, needing a job, getting a new job. If a former colleague contacts me looking for work I know s/he's not interested in me turning her on to a volunteer opportunity. I understand the intention of the language. But, fine. Why make use of the language at all. SAHPs are actually working parents. The unemployed don't need jobs. Let's make it as complicated as possible so you can be an Internet warrior fighting for your cause.
Looked like running away to me and as I said the point you were defending was poorly defended. However this is not a thread about that, my point is just that you are in no position to throw out rhetoric like "full of fail" just to fill out your posts in the place of defense of them. The tone of my reply, as always with my posts, was targeted to be in the same tone as the one I received.
The claim that a hobby is anything similar to a job is what is "full of fail" here. The fact remains that if you teach at a museum then this is work, a job. Regardless of whether you are paid for it or not. A hobby and a job are entirely different things. Working for someone else, volunteer or otherwise, is still a job not a hobby.
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