Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
but they can also choose to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do...
I think this can be important in Deprograming yourself. When you get the desire to change and wean yourself off of something, you need to believe its the right thing for you to do.
You can think of the withdrawls of quitting cigatettes as an in-between. You are whole as a smoker- you quit and experience the in-between period, harsh, even nightmarish withdrawls. Then, after a while you are a whole nother person on the other side, who can't even fathom how you could ever smoke the stuff. You are who you were, you entered the harsh in-between, and you come out reborn into a different and better person on the other side. You have compassion of God through Jesus and Buddha through any and all harsh changes.
You bring up a good point of intrest here; " The Withdrawal from things", and other posters have brought up " Fear." The withdrawl experience is VERY harsh, very Hard; and many are just too afraid of the obvious pain in that withdrawal. And just don't want to go through that pain. I remember my experience withdrawing from alcohol abuse; I just didnot want to go through the days after stopping, the sleepless nights. The throwing up; the deep craving for another drink, and I didnot have the courage to go throught it. Which in turn, " Dragged it on and on", until I got the strength to endure the pain and see it through.
So a willingness and the courage to " Go throught the changes and the discomfort of that change" is paramount in deprograming.
The major hurdle for those so afflicted is the fear programming they have been victimized by.
Irrational fear is the root emotion to keep the flock behaving like sheep. To never look at alternatives, to never question for those have been clearly viewed as sin, and sin results in consequences of eternal torment to reinforce the whole cycle.
So off to the shearing shack they go, mindless followers too afraid to even question much less challenge what they have been taught.
I do not believe in eternal torment, but I think " Challanging what you have been taught", is an excellent point in deprograming! We have got to challange the traditions that have literally programed us for years!
By absorbing the deity of Jesus Christ. THrough spiritual death and rebirth. Any kind of death (spiritual or otherwise) is the oppertunity for enlightenment and Liberation from sin, and a full shedding of skin. You can think of a mourning period as an in-between, or a death-to-life experience. Christ's documented in-between was a 3 day in-between. The Tebetan Book Of The Dead makes it clear that mourning periods, or in-between periods can vary in length. Each death-to-life experience is unique.
You can think of the withdrawls of quitting cigatettes as an in-between. You are whole as a smoker- you quit and experience the in-between period, harsh, even nightmarish withdrawls. Then, after a while you are a whole nother person on the other side, who can't even fathom how you could ever smoke the stuff. You are who you were, you entered the harsh in-between, and you come out reborn into a different and better person on the other side. You have compassion of God through Jesus and Buddha through any and all harsh changes.
But... but... what if the strangling shackles of organized religion is exactly what you are trying to shake off, like a coating of cow-dung-water, BP? As an alternate and more on-point response to the OP's seemingly secular point, I'd add that my late teens were the beginning point of my personal self-awakening, which often happens when a person is in thhat time of their lives.
(you remember: when we all start to think we know it all, and we tend to reject parental authority. Then follows a period of self-assured smugness and hubris, which over time is tempered by being continuously humiliated. The more hubritic and egocentric a person is, the more they will fall, and hard. But in the end, fail they will....)
God, however, is not the answer to all ills, as BP assumes here. In fact, for me, God and His Greater Folly was the thing I had to shake off. I was initially scared when I contemplated, even briefly, a life without Christ, since I'd been subjected to about 10 initial years of nonsense comix and threats in my Sunday School, and then about 5 years my youth pastor's rants and finger-waggling pronouncements! Ouch! Talk about a fantasy world!
So it WAS the learning of the ways and means of engineering design and process that gave me my eventual strong and unshakable ability to at least take an honest, hard and functional look at, well, anything. It wasn't the so-called Demon Science Mindset. Hardly. That way of thinking is the simple and logical outcome of such an unbiased approach. It's a cold, hard world where if you don't take which an unflinching elemental look at things, you realize you will not be successful in the field of engineering.
__________________________
Imagine if the designers of The Apollo Lunar Project had designed the descent lander component (one of my favorite engineering subjects back then) by dreamily staring off into the heavens and saying "Oh, I think; no.... I deeply FEEL, that there should be only two lander legs, because The Lord tells me this is symmetrical and glorious, a monument to my desires and personal needs...."
The resulting sound upon descent? Crunk & Burn. Nope; you must take a hard & dispassionate look at all the facts.
__________________________
Then later, as an adjunct to fully bolster my new-found realizations, and to answer the questions that such an open approach had already uncovered, I became a biologist, eagerly reading and absorbing all I could on this fascinating world, and my eyes were opened to the facts of biochemistry, of how inorganics naturally lead to organics which lead inexorably, and via the amazing fact of DNA, into ever-more-organized and functioning life processes and organizations.
This revelation was the key to my eventually shaking off the chains of a static-thinking, unquestioning mindset, a system designed to suppress such thinking and learning. Quite aside from it's cultural & spiritual components, this means of thinking can be applied to literally every situation a person might face. It doesn't mean total life self-fulfillment nor spiritual happiness, but at least you achieve a feeling that you have the toolset required to meet most any challenge.
Incidentally, this psychological lineage is typical of most all atheists. Not necessarily that they became scientists or engineers like me, but where somehow they chose to diverge from the path of unthinking parrotting and cultural adherence, and learned to think things through for themselves.
So, to answer the OP's question, I'd say you must learn to push past levels of thinking that others say you may not, or that you are mandated by some wooden religious icon to do. Alternatively, Do not FEAR the things you see right now as Unknowns, that you've been told are taboo to even consider.
The enlightenment phase will astound you, I assure you.
But... but... what if the strangling shackles of organized religion is exactly what you are trying to shake off, like a coating of cow-dung-water, BP? As an alternate and more on-point response to the OP's seemingly secular point, Quote
I certainly had to shake off the shackles of organized religion; and I think its grip can be just like shackles. And although on a personal note, I had to withdraw from unbelief; My intrest in this thread is to hear others method of withdrawal from whatever.
Quote:So, to answer the OP's question, I'd say you must learn to push past levels of thinking that others say you may not, or that you are mandated by some wooden religious icon to do. Alternatively, Do not FEAR the things you see right now as Unknowns, that you've been told are taboo to even consider.
The enlightenment phase will astound you, I assure you.
Pushing past levels of thinking that others say you may not, is an excellent mindset in reprograming your mindset. Some people who try to withdraw from things, reach one or two stages, and get " Turned back", simply not able to go through however many stages that such a struggle as change will require.
Have you ever tried to get something " Out of your mind?" Have you ever had a bad habit that just seems to always get the best of you, even though you fight it? Have you been in a particular group for years, and decided to leave; and you left! And yet, so many things you learned in that group, you find is just still in you and willnot leave your consciousness. And you want those things out. Or you may have a particular " Mindset", that you got from just " Being in Love with someone"; now the relationship is over and you want to rid yourself of " Their imprint on your ways of being."
Well its just time to " Deprogram yourself."
And Deprograming the Consciousness is a very real dynamic, when you want to " Cleanse the Self." You got all deeply in Love with the wrong person, and you just want them " out of Your System." You just want to forget.
Can the Consciousness be wiped clean of things?
You were in a Religion; you learned all kinds of things, for years. Now you want out; and you leave. But you soon discover that this religion got " All in your Bones", became a part of you. What do you do to divorce the Consciousness from it?
You first realize that the practice of religion doesnt and cant bring ultimate fulfillment in your life because it is all based on legalistic constructs ; no amount of trying, doing, partaking in, and pulling up on your own bootstraps will ever be enough to earn a good standing with your Creator . Then you acknowledge that it is your Creators plan (and not Mans religiousity ) that is given to you for a real dynamic personal relationship with him that is centered around the reconciliation between yourself as a Sinner and God as very holy and good . Finally, you realize that it was God himself that reached out his hand to you by sending Jesus Christ the Son of God to become a human being , live the perfect sinless life that you and I are unable to..making him a perfect sacrifice on the cross for payment of all your sins against God himself as well as your fellow man. It is Gods plan for your life that you need and not going thru the mechanical motions of practicing religion . Conclusively, when you recieve the finished work of Christ on the cross for you sins, you are saying that you want to abide in Gods plan for your life thereby making HIM the one in authority of your life...and then walking in the power of God daily thruout life. This is the beginning of an adventure that is truly heart changing and you start to look at thing, the world, people, etc... differently as you personally walk with God in your life. You realize that its not just a religious experience, but a very real ongoing relationship that you experience day in and day out culminating in spending eternity with the Maker of your Soul which encompasses joys not yet known.
That is the difference between religious practicing , and what God wants for you. Its an act of your Will , and if you are willing, you will experience your ultimate purpose in life . Without it, there will always be that void in your heart and life that nothing else can fill. I made that decision some 25 years ago and have never regretted it. You are free to PM me if you like. Regards.
A lot of what's being said in this thread sounds like Scientology BS. If so, why exchange a religious belief based on centuries of study and deliberation for a 'church' invented by a third-rate science fiction writer/con man? Mind you, it makes no difference to me; I'm an agnostic.
A lot of what's being said in this thread sounds like Scientology BS. If so, why exchange a religious belief based on centuries of study and deliberation for a 'church' invented by a third-rate science fiction writer/con man? Mind you, it makes no difference to me; I'm an agnostic.
Can you explain what your particular agnosticism entails ?
Can you explain what your particular agnosticism entails ?
The existence of a deity is unknown and unknowable.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
