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The tallest part of that tower looks like the type of building that is much more attractive in renderings than in real life. Hope I'm wrong. Glad something is happening there though.
I have a hard time believing there is enough wealth here in the city to sell that many towers at that price point. Outside investors looking to stash their money? Maybe? Some rich Main Line empty nesters who'd rather live in the city? Maybe. I hope I'm wrong. That empty-holed lot is a huge eye sore.
Dranoff gets stuff built but he's also very conservative. I mean, it took 5 years to get this tower going. I'm sure he did his market research. Our metro is 4-6 million depending on how you look at it so another one hundred 2+ million condos isn't overboard. If you look at greater Center City, hundreds of properties are selling in the $750+ range. There's obliviously money around.
And even at those prices, it's significantly cheaper than NYC. There is A LOT of money in the burbs and that's who will be buying these up for the most part. At least that's what their expectation is. For now.
Sandy's quote is exactly what virtually every NYC Expat in Philly I've met has said (count me as included in that group) - the value proposition Philly offers makes it a no brainer. And the more NY becomes the new New York, the more Philly becomes attractive. People who moved to NY used to do that because of the varying layers of grit NY offered - ranging from the Russian Tea Room to CBGB's. You could see a Broadway play and a Punk band in the same day. Now, the price to pay for that is prohibitive and the grit is gone. It's the Real Housewives of NY and the prospect of having to rub elbows with people like that is terrifying to the NY old school. Philly is still there. The money wash hasn't really started to blanket the entire city - yet.
This tower (and the Laurel) represent - to me - an early wave of this phenomenon. These new lux residences will attract money, and money attracts more money. Once the well-heeled see that you only have to spend 4 million to live in a condo like that and still have old money East Coast proximity, world class culinary, respectable entertainment scene with a rich and vast historical and cultural spine and this IS going to be the new NY.
We've had many NY'ers come and visit and I can tell you after they marveled at what our apartment cost, and the time they spent here, I'd say 75% of them are looking to move. No exaggeration.
I have a hard time believing there is enough wealth here in the city to sell that many towers at that price point. Outside investors looking to stash their money? Maybe? Some rich Main Line empty nesters who'd rather live in the city? Maybe. I hope I'm wrong. That empty-holed lot is a huge eye sore.
108 units isn't that many, and these residential towers go up pretty much 1 at a time, I think with the pace of construction, the supply and demand will balance out.
Philadelphia is a poor city, but there are pockets of wealth and big industry in the city, and the greater Philadelphia area is can certainly support the supply. There are dozens of single family home communities popping up throughout many suburban communities in the $900k+ range. Liseter in Newtown Square for example is 400+ homes priced between $700-$2.5M, and the community was largely a success, so the question of having buyers is easy, developers need to be careful not to go overboard though. Philadelphia cannot support large scale luxury development (yet).
The rich stashing money in real estate is very limited to New York and LA, and now Miami.
Last edited by cpomp; 06-12-2019 at 11:06 AM..
Reason: edit
Personally not impressed with the tower myself. And I've made my thoughts clear before on the tax abatement in Philly being just a tax cut for the wealthy and upper middle class.
I won't even get into the abatement, because my thoughts differ on that topic.
If this tower has some sort of retail or dining component and underground parking, its worlds better than a bunch of mcmansion rowhomes, which are in general ugly, have parking alleys/garages, no retail, no dining, etc. There have been some beautiful rowhome projects in around CC in smaller pockets / side streets, but on Broad Street, rowhomes should not be a consideration, regardless of the density equivalent.
Dranoffs other S. Broad projects are mid-rise and work fine, this is a skyscraper and also works fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog
And even at those prices, it's significantly cheaper than NYC. There is A LOT of money in the burbs and that's who will be buying these up for the most part. At least that's what their expectation is. For now.
Sandy's quote is exactly what virtually every NYC Expat in Philly I've met has said (count me as included in that group) - the value proposition Philly offers makes it a no brainer. And the more NY becomes the new New York, the more Philly becomes attractive. People who moved to NY used to do that because of the varying layers of grit NY offered - ranging from the Russian Tea Room to CBGB's. You could see a Broadway play and a Punk band in the same day. Now, the price to pay for that is prohibitive and the grit is gone. It's the Real Housewives of NY and the prospect of having to rub elbows with people like that is terrifying to the NY old school. Philly is still there. The money wash hasn't really started to blanket the entire city - yet.
This tower (and the Laurel) represent - to me - an early wave of this phenomenon. These new lux residences will attract money, and money attracts more money. Once the well-heeled see that you only have to spend 4 million to live in a condo like that and still have old money East Coast proximity, world class culinary, respectable entertainment scene with a rich and vast historical and cultural spine and this IS going to be the new NY.
We've had many NY'ers come and visit and I can tell you after they marveled at what our apartment cost, and the time they spent here, I'd say 75% of them are looking to move. No exaggeration.
Dranoff stated that over half of his buyers at One Riverside were local suburbanites, I'm sure the same can be said for 500 Walnut.
I think the Laurel has the biggest chance to open up the interest from wealthy NY / out of town buyers since its right on Rittenhouse Square. Why buy a $10M condo on Park Ave when you can get a nicer and bigger $2-5M condo on Rittenhouse Square?
But I don't think Philadelphia will blow up with luxury development because the jobs are not here to support many large scale projects.
I also do not see any problem with building $2M condos in Center City, the super left movement makes no sense to me.... They don't like wealthy people or luxury projects, yet sit and commiserate when they see a 25% poverty rate. If anything, projects like bring excellent press and possibilities into the city.
If my boyfriend and I were to move back to the city in a few years we would likely fall into the group of unwanted New Yorkers with money, yet we would be actively involved in our work, the community, gay community, etc. Funny how generalizations work and how the ignorant thrives on them....
I don't think those numbers are causing any pricing or parking problems in Philadelphia. Its a few thousand people a year (before you factor in the losses). Philadelphia at one point held over 2M people, we are still far from that.
And I actually agree with Indiana, I welcome people from New York. I am sure a chunk are working class immigrants, but you also have upper middle class couples and families who want more for their money. Philadelphia desperately needs more of that, I welcome them.
If anything the super rich people moving into the city are from our very own suburbs.
Who do you think is buying those $2M+ condos popping up everywhere??
I don't have a problem with anyone moving here, from anywhere else. New Yorkers have been relocating to Philadelphia for decades, and vice versa. I also know how many people resided in town at the peak of total population, that's why I am wanting to see an substantial increase in both white and blue collar jobs in the city.
Also, improvements in the school system along with an increase in officers in the PPD will certainly help in keeping a growing population within city limits.
I won't even get into the abatement, because my thoughts differ on that topic.
If this tower has some sort of retail or dining component and underground parking, its worlds better than a bunch of mcmansion rowhomes, which are in general ugly, have parking alleys/garages, no retail, no dining, etc. There have been some beautiful rowhome projects in around CC in smaller pockets / side streets, but on Broad Street, rowhomes should not be a consideration, regardless of the density equivalent.
Dranoffs other S. Broad projects are mid-rise and work fine, this is a skyscraper and also works fine.
Dranoff stated that over half of his buyers at One Riverside were local suburbanites, I'm sure the same can be said for 500 Walnut.
I think the Laurel has the biggest chance to open up the interest from wealthy NY / out of town buyers since its right on Rittenhouse Square. Why buy a $10M condo on Park Ave when you can get a nicer and bigger $2-5M condo on Rittenhouse Square?
But I don't think Philadelphia will blow up with luxury development because the jobs are not here to support many large scale projects.
I also do not see any problem with building $2M condos in Center City, the super left movement makes no sense to me.... They don't like wealthy people or luxury projects, yet sit and commiserate when they see a 25% poverty rate. If anything, projects like bring excellent press and possibilities into the city.
If my boyfriend and I were to move back to the city in a few years we would likely fall into the group of unwanted New Yorkers with money, yet we would be actively involved in our work, the community, gay community, etc. Funny how generalizations work and how the ignorant thrives on them....
I have a problem with the ultra wealthy moving in, taking over an entire block or more with a skyscaper and then paying tax on that entire block of property which is worth 300 million or more in total land value, like it's value is ~1 million.
Then the cost of the schools and such get passed onto the poor people in the area, while the rich pay taxes like they're in a 30k smoking ruin of a rowhome.
I have a problem with the ultra wealthy moving in, taking over an entire block or more with a skyscaper and then paying tax on that entire block of property which is worth 300 million or more in total land value, like it's value is ~1 million.
Then the cost of the schools and such get passed onto the poor people in the area, while the rich pay taxes like they're in a 30k smoking ruin of a rowhome.
Hey, at least these uber rich are actually paying something and also contributing to our economy. I would imagine their average weekly expenditures would support dozens of restaurants and retail shops. Half of our city residents not only pay zero taxes... well, zero anything really, but their broken families of seven unwanted kids are ours to support and raise. Fun.
Hey, at least these uber rich are actually paying something and also contributing to our economy. I would imagine their average weekly expenditures would support dozens of restaurants and retail shops. Half of our city residents not only pay zero taxes... well, zero anything really, but their broken families of seven unwanted kids are ours to support and raise. Fun.
Very good point, and its quite likely people with that level of income moving into these units will have people visiting them, frequenting the city, and possibly investing introducing business into the city.
The tax abated units is hardly putting a burden on the poor. City council has been burdening the poor for decades, yet they have brainwashed so many into thinking its the wealthy (white) peoples faults.
We were in Madrid a few months back - best seafood we ever had!
Anyway, I don't like you and you don't like me , but yeah, I'd much rather have New Yorkers than these goobers we're getting from Bumblescrew ... At least the New Yorkers have personality. And money. Don't forget the money.
Lol. Yes money helps quite a bit - especially in a city where we are forced to support half the population.
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, but yeah, I'd much rather have New Yorkers than these goobers we're getting from Bumblescrew ... At least the New Yorkers have personality. And money. Don't forget the money.
