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I love this "debate" response. Yes, anyone who thinks there's a better way than the way it's always been done MUST feel ill at ease with their choices.
The only way I'd feel ill at ease with my choices would be if I'd had my children too young given what I know about the risks involved in having children too young. Just the divorce stat alone for young couples is scary. Divorce really tears kids apart. Yes, there's that rare case where mom and dad put their differences aside for the kids but it's rare and even then divorce is not good for kids.
Here's a thought. Maybe some of us are saying that waiting is a good thing because it is. That has nothing to do with our personal choices.
So you "chose" to have kids at age 38? You didn't try for them or want them earlier? It just reads like situationally you are trying to defend a circumstance in which you happened to have found yourself, that may not have been entirely of your own preference.
The idea of seeing so many parents who look like their own children's grandparents still strikes me as unusual, but I see it everyday - all these parents who waited until everything was just so, only to find it really wasn't, even though they waited until they were in their late 30s and 40s. All this talk of stability and ironclad security, too, that you seem so bent on just doesn't pan out in today's economy, either - where people (even the uber-educated) are being downsized, laid off, offshored, pink-slipped, seeing their retirement savings wither away, etc.
You can prepare for life. But being old when you have kids is no insulation against what can befall anyone at any time.
So you "chose" to have kids at age 38? You didn't try for them or want them earlier? It just reads like situationally you are trying to defend a circumstance in which you happened to have found yourself, that may not have been entirely of your own preference.
The idea of seeing so many parents who look like their own children's grandparents still strikes me as unusual, but I see it everyday - all these parents who waited until everything was just so, only to find it really wasn't, even though they waited until they were in their late 30s and 40s. All this talk of stability and ironclad security, too, that you seem so bent on just doesn't pan out in today's economy, either - where people (even the uber-educated) are being downsized, laid off, offshored, pink-slipped, seeing their retirement savings wither away, etc.
You can prepare for life. But being old when you have kids is no insulation against what can befall anyone at any time.
Yes, I chose to have my children after my career was established and I was in position to provide for them well. It's not like that's a bad thing. The benefits do outweigh the risks, especially since there are few risks to the children. The biggest being you don't have them because discovering you have a fertility problem at 36 is different than discovering it at 26 but I'd rather not have kids than have them before I was ready for them. I knew the risk I was taking but I was lucky and ,like most women, able to have kids in my late 30's. If I had not had kids, I would have finished my PhD and done more with my career. It's not like HAD to have kids. I love them to pieces but they are optional. I chose to have them and was lucky enough to be able to have them but could have led a happy life without them. Just a different life. I have friends who waited and then decided not to have kids. They are happy with their choices too.
Yes, I look more like my children's grandmother but looks aren't everything . What matters is my kids were wanted, I was ready for them and I was in position to be able to balance family/work, which was very important to me. I think older parents will become more the norm as time passes. After all, we're now living to the age of 80 as a matter of routine. Why wouldn't life get structured differently with us living longe?
I do have to wonder why people here think I'd have anything to justify in my choice though. I can't think of anything I'd need to justify as I don't see a real downside to having kids older when compared to having them younger. Everything has it's disadvantages but when I compare the two, older is the clear winner. I have to say that my only regret is my children will, most likely, inherit our estate when they are fairly young and I hope they have the sense to take care of it. Hopefully not too young but you never know. My mom was 22 when I was born and I was 22 when she died so, even though there is a link between late fertility and longevity, I'm not counting on it. I did escape what killed her so who knows.
I beg to differ on stability in today's economy. The reason we have stability in our household is that I worked all those years and saved. While I have had, significant, losses, I'm still in good shape. I'm very glad I took the time to take care of business first. While I'm no longer set for retirement as I thought I was three years ago, I still have time to repair the damage that was done by the bad economy before I retire because I took care of business when I was younger. I can't kick back like I thought I could at my age but I'd be in way worse position if I'd foregone the preparations I made.
THe story is the same for all of my friends. The only people I know who are not ok are people who never prepared. Particularly, those who thought their house would be their retirement because prices would just go up and up and bought way too much house which they can't even sell for what they owe in it now but that was just not smart. Sooner or later we had to hit a bad economy. I just hope this one isn't permanent and it may be. We went shopping for cheap goods to the point we put most US manufacturers out of business and now wonder why everything is made in China. That's because that's all we bought for years and now there's not much choice. It's scary. Unless we figure out how to compete with the rest of the world in the tech sector, we'll continue to decline and I don't see that happening any time soon. Makes me very glad I have an estate to pass to my kids. It may be their saving grace. Of course I need to take care of it and make sure there's something left for them.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-08-2009 at 06:51 AM..
This is the thing with many americans. They always treat people based on some "scientific" study that found people under a certain age group are not "mature" due to their brain. I guess the reason why there was so much war in the ancient times was because of those 14yr old kings going around wanting to kill their enemies because they were immature. I mean we have leaders in their 40s and beyond and when do they do any corrupt things?
And I guess those states who trial 14yr olds as adults need to revise their laws because its proven these kids are not mature yet.
But do you realize that just because their brain is mature(d) doesn't mean they are going to be capable of acting better than an adult with an immature brain? Does that make sense? People have concises to act "right" in their given circumstances. It has nothing to do with the brain being "matured"
When predicting the future, all you can do is go on past data. Given we ask our children to pay the price if we're wrong, these are not decisions that should be made with the heart. You need mind and heart on the same page.
I've already said that age is necessary but not sufficient for maturity. Some will never mature but that's not an excuse to do things early because many will mature given time and it makes a difference.
It is true that some people beat the odds but should we really be gambling with our children's futures? You don't justify taking risks because some people get away with it. This is analgous to driving without your seat belt because most people don't need it in a given day. You don't justify risky behaviors because some people get away with it. Especially when someone else will be asked to pay the price for your actions.
By your own reasoning you should not have had kids at age 38, it is considerably more risky for the child.
Quote:
At age 25, a woman has about a 1-in-1,250 chance of having a baby with Down syndrome.
At age 30, a 1-in-1,000 chance.
At age 35, a 1-in-400 chance.
At age 40, a 1-in-100 chance.
At 45, a 1-in-30 chance.
At 49, a 1-in-10 chance (1, 4).
There are also increased risks to both the mother and child, gestational diabetes, increased c-sections, 25% end in miscarriages (death, and even you said young parents are better than death by abortion-naturally extends to miscarriage), stillbirths, premature delivery....all much more likely over the age of 35.
Didn't you gamble too?? Isn't that equally irresponsible?? Aren't you ready to back down from your blanket statements??
You're welcome. Just consider that your brain is a little more cooked for having figured it out at all. You're on your way!!
I really wish I could rep you again and again for this, NC. You did something very rare on an online forum. You used logic to irrefutably dismiss nit. If nit's 21, then by his own reasoning, he's not qualified to make a serious judgement about anything.
I do not condone young teen mothers having children. That said, I come from the belief that if you can afford to have children at 18, then by all means, please have as many children as you want. My beef is not what age someone decides to have children, it's when they cannot afford to have children and I have to pay for it! It's a personal choice to have kids, I was a young mother, 18, but I have never been on government assistance or welfare or any other program that someone else paid for. Pay for your own kids!
By your own reasoning you should not have had kids at age 38, it is considerably more risky for the child.
There are also increased risks to both the mother and child, gestational diabetes, increased c-sections, 25% end in miscarriages (death, and even you said young parents are better than death by abortion-naturally extends to miscarriage), stillbirths, premature delivery....all much more likely over the age of 35.
Didn't you gamble too?? Isn't that equally irresponsible?? Aren't you ready to back down from your blanket statements??
Try again. It's about lessening risks not eliminating them. They can't be eliminated and the risk of something like DS, at 38, are far less than the risk of putting a child through a divorce if you have them too young. The risk to benefit ratio was weighed. The risks of something like DS are not that high. At 38, I still had a 98% chance of having a perfectly healthy child. (I have two by the way) Hmmmm? Let's see, two in five chance of divorcing plus all the financial issues and issues associated with too young parents vs. a 1 in 50 chance of a genetic disorder (according to my doctor - not sure if this is in general). I'll go with the 1 in 50 shot of something (anything not just downs) going wrong, as I did.
Everyone gambles. There is no time when there is no risk. I never said there was. I said that wiating wins and I believe it does. The odds are less of something going wrong. The damage done by divorce, increased abuse/neglect rates of young mothers, parents unable to provide what their children need far exceeds the genetic risk I took. Personally, I'd rather have a child with a genetic disorder than a normal child I was not equipped to properly care for. Had either of my girls had downs or any other disorder, they would have been well cared for BECAUSE I waited. If I weren't willing to accept a child who wasn't perfect, I wouldn't have had kids at all. Knowing something can go wrong is part of the reason I waited until I was stable.
Oh, and you do realize you can have a downs child at 20, right? At 30 the risk is 1 in 900. By 35 the odds of having a DS child is 1 in 350. By 40, 1 in 100. I don't see where I took some huge risk. It's not like the 40 % of marriages you can expect to end in divorce (That's first marriages and one source says 43% while the other says 41%, second marriages, as we know, have a higher failure rate but I'm not sure how much higher.). And does a DS child really care? I've had the pleasure of knowing three people with DS in my lifetime. They're all sweet, good natured and love life. They're a heck of a lot happier than the rest of us, that's for sure.
Which reminds me of DS twins I met one day. I was 18, really depressed, convinced my life was going nowhere and rather suicidal. I was just sitting in my car in a parking lot when these two, middle aged men, who, obviously had downs, got into my back seat and started talking about how the sun was shining and the birds were singing and so on and so on. This elderly couple came running yelling "They won't hurt you". After mom and dad retrieved their kids, I was left there to ponder that I, with everything I had going for me, was sitting here feeling sorry for myself while they, who, according to society, have lives not worth living could see the beauty of the world around them.
Yeah, I think the risk I took was less than the risk a 20 year old takes. In my case, getting a late start on college pushed things later than normal but it was the right choice. To have had kids before I was prepared for them and wanted them would have been wrong.
Edited because I had the wrong stat for 35
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-08-2009 at 11:33 AM..
Statistically speaking, until you've been married several years, your risk of divorce is high. Divorce hurts kids. I can say waiting has better odds for kids.
Well we are a blatant case of where this did not hold true. But we've already beaten that to death. Which is exactly where this thread is going. Good grief.
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