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It seems obvious that children who are not vaccinated are at an increased risk of contracting the Vaccine preventable diseases. From the link you posted:
So if 11% are due to vaccine refusal, what is the reason for the other 89%?
It seems obvious that children who are not vaccinated are at an increased risk of contracting the Vaccine preventable diseases. From the link you posted:
So if 11% are due to vaccine refusal, what is the reason for the other 89%?
The article doesn't directly state much, but my assumption would be that the other pediatric cases are infants that are younger than 6 months and children older than 7 years. The first vaccine is given at 2 months and a second at 4 and a third at 6 months. You don't develop full immunity until the final course is run at 6 months (partial immunity begins after the first dose). A booster is then given at 3 1/2. It is now also recommended for adult caregivers to receive a pertussis booster to help prevent infection in newborns.
My assumption would be that the 11% they are referring to is the number of cases that would have been prevented by vaccine in children between 6 months and 7 years.
I'm not going to get into this one, but I did choose to fully vaccinate my kids to the recommended schedule with no issues. I do worry about people who have chosen not to immunize their kids. There are diseases that had been virtually eradicated that are now making a comeback. I don't think the few people choosing not to immunize is a real issue, but if the trend continues, I do believe it is a public health concern.
I just want to know what Mad Cow disease has to do with vaccinations and flouride?? Seriously?? On a side note, I can't even donate blood because I could have Mad Cow disease, I lived in Europe during the 80's and might develop it.
Vaccinations do run a risk, but so does not vaccinating. Parents have to weigh the risks and decide for themselves. All our children were fully vaccinated as babies. I staggered the vaccinations of our youngest child once he hit age 4 though, and he is about to get his last shot so he will be caught up. For "less serious" diseases/illnesses such as the flu, we don't usually vaccinate against.
What "facts" do you think you have used to breed confusion??
The 11% "stat"???
I take it you have never read a medical study or taken even a rudimentary course in statistics.....
Let me "dumb it down" for you.....
If you have a population you are studying for pertussis presentation....the majority of folks(thankfully) still immunize their kids and follow recommended guidelines for immunization.
So lets say from a "population" of 10,000 kids, 90% are immunized, 10% are not...
From the original population you have 100 kids with pertussis and "11%" , 11 kids are unvaccinated. Lets say the other 89% of kids WERE vaccinated but didn't develop immunity or the immunity waned....
THIS A KNOWN FACTOR WITH ALL IMMUNIZATIONS no immunization is going to provide 100% immunity....
Looks bad right....89 vaccinated kids got pertussis but only 11 unvaccinated kids got pertussis...the horror
Now before you dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back....
9000 kids were immunized and 89 developed pertussis......0.1%
1000 kids WERE NOT immunized and 11 developed pertussis......1.1%
So in this simplified example the child without the immunization is TEN TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DEVELOP PERTUSSIS
THAT is what the article I posted is stating....
Pesky things those facts, one actually has to understand them to use them
I just want to know what Mad Cow disease has to do with vaccinations and flouride?? Seriously?? On a side note, I can't even donate blood because I could have Mad Cow disease, I lived in Europe during the 80's and might develop it.
Me too! Altho on the upside, we can donate bone marrow .
I have problems with fluoridated water because I'm actually allergic to fluoride. Where I live it isn't an issue because the fluoride levels are so small it doesn't really affect me, but when I go to visit my parents I have to brush my teeth using bottled water or else I have the most horrendous reaction. And of course I use non-flouride toothpaste and mouthwash. Thankfully so far there is no sign of my teeth falling out
What "facts" do you think you have used to breed confusion??
The 11% "stat"???
I take it you have never read a medical study or taken even a rudimentary course in statistics.....
Let me "dumb it down" for you.....
If you have a population you are studying for pertussis presentation....the majority of folks(thankfully) still immunize their kids and follow recommended guidelines for immunization.
So lets say from a "population" of 10,000 kids, 90% are immunized, 10% are not...
From the original population you have 100 kids with pertussis and "11%" , 11 kids are unvaccinated. Lets say the other 89% of kids WERE vaccinated but didn't develop immunity or the immunity waned....
THIS A KNOWN FACTOR WITH ALL IMMUNIZATIONS no immunization is going to provide 100% immunity....
Looks bad right....89 vaccinated kids got pertussis but only 11 unvaccinated kids got pertussis...the horror
Now before you dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back....
9000 kids were immunized and 89 developed pertussis......0.1%
1000 kids WERE NOT immunized and 11 developed pertussis......1.1%
So in this simplified example the child without the immunization is TEN TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DEVELOP PERTUSSIS
THAT is what the article I posted is stating....
Pesky things those facts, one actually has to understand them to use them
Gee whiz Bluedevilz, thanks for "dumbing things down" for me. (pretend that smiley is cross-eyed with a couple of teeth missing). The link to the study summary that you posted shows that unvaccinated children are at an increased risk of contracting pertussis compared to those who are vaccinated. That shouldn't surprise anyone and is not in dispute. You posted this summary in response to an article that I posted, which talks about a study where researchers found that at least two strains of the bacteria that cause pertussis have mutated and the vaccine can no longer protect against these two common strains. I'm not sure why you posted the summary in response to the article that I posted since the two have little to do with one another.
I am questioning if we are seeing an increase in pertussis cases due to this mutation (which very well could be related to the vaccine itself) or is it due to something else? People automatically point fingers at unvaccinated children as being the cause even when there is evidence of other factors at play which is why I'm questioning the cause for the other 89% of the population who are vaccinated.
As to my, "Never" remark. I thought that is was pretty obvious that it was a joke in reply to TouchOfWhimsy's joke. It's called humor and sometimes people use it to try to lighten the mood in an otherwise overly serious or tense conversation like this one.
What "facts" do you think you have used to breed confusion??
The 11% "stat"???
I take it you have never read a medical study or taken even a rudimentary course in statistics.....
Let me "dumb it down" for you.....
If you have a population you are studying for pertussis presentation....the majority of folks(thankfully) still immunize their kids and follow recommended guidelines for immunization.
So lets say from a "population" of 10,000 kids, 90% are immunized, 10% are not...
From the original population you have 100 kids with pertussis and "11%" , 11 kids are unvaccinated. Lets say the other 89% of kids WERE vaccinated but didn't develop immunity or the immunity waned....
THIS A KNOWN FACTOR WITH ALL IMMUNIZATIONS no immunization is going to provide 100% immunity....
Looks bad right....89 vaccinated kids got pertussis but only 11 unvaccinated kids got pertussis...the horror
Now before you dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back....
9000 kids were immunized and 89 developed pertussis......0.1%
1000 kids WERE NOT immunized and 11 developed pertussis......1.1%
So in this simplified example the child without the immunization is TEN TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DEVELOP PERTUSSIS
THAT is what the article I posted is stating....
Pesky things those facts, one actually has to understand them to use them
Yeah, we could say that, OR we could use real math (because 89/9000 does NOT equal .1%, but .98%, which is really not that far away from the 1.1%!) Nice number-skewing, though. What was that you were saying about facts and dumbing things down?
Last edited by TouchOfWhimsy; 08-04-2010 at 06:20 PM..
Also markg91359 can you please post some sources to this information you seem to have. Please provide the information that fluoridation in the water is a good thing also I will share my information on how it is not good when you can show and prove it is beneficial. All I have to say is look on the back of toothpaste and read the warning label. Now you think drinking it is healthy especially to a baby or child?
1. Anything you get from the Alex Jones website should just be assumed untrue. Anything. That website is intended for shock-value, and most of it is fiction. The rest is conspiracy theory.
2. If you are using anything from #1 as your idea of a "credible source" I'd just cross out anything else on your list, because if you believe that, you'd believe any lie you hear from anyone.
3. If you really want credible sources, you'll rule out herb websites that exist to sell herbs (because they will of COURSE say their stuff is better than pharmaceuticals), and you'll rule out D.C. websites, because it is in their best financial interest to get you to stop taking pills and start going to D.C.s. And the sicker you get, the more you'll visit them, and the more money you'll spend on them.
Now to the actual crux of the issue:
Mad cow disease in cows is no longer a big deal in the world, it's mostly in check, and mostly eradicated. There are still some cannibalistic groups of tribal humans who eat human brain tissue and get sick, but it isn't from eating cows that eat cow meat. It's from eating human brain tissue.
Fluoride IS a toxin, if taken in a toxic dose. It doesn't build up in the system, it absorbs and eliminates fairly quickly through normal digestion if ingested. The good news, is that the amount of fluoride needed to cause upset stomach (let alone any other symptom) is 1mg. That would be - an entire tube of toothpaste, ingested in a single meal. That would also be around 4 gallons of water, ingested nonstop until the 4-gallon jug was empty. In other words, you'd probably be hospitalized for water toxicity LONG before you got sick from the fluoride in the water.
Vaccinations: the big autism scare is over; the doctor had his own agenda, and has had his license taken away from him because he cheated and defrauded the public. There is NO correlation between vaccines and autism. However, if you're allergic to eggs, vaccines are still dangerous for you. But no one has ever refuted that, and it's been publically known for decades.
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On a side note, I can't even donate blood because I could have Mad Cow disease, I lived in Europe during the 80's and might develop it. 
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