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This is not true and is a dangerous thing for all of us without law degrees to state as fact. If mom is denying all visitation to the fathers house and family she looks unreasonable and vindictive in court and may work against her best interests and those of her child in the long run.
OP, it is a very good idea to talk to a family lawyer, before the birth but these recommendations are groundless based on the law, and in particular the laws in NJ, and should not be panic inducing.
Look at you stating it's not true and groundless as what you're saying is fact.
I do agree nobody needs to panic, but the daughter needs to be aware of her and the father's rights are absolutely equal prior to custody and visitation are formalized in court.
I wouldn't worry about that because that would be Dad taking/removing/kidnapping the baby away from the baby's Mother's house.
The other poster implied that if Dad & his family wanted to be sneaky they would do something when the baby is at their house and they claim that Mom "abandoned" the baby.
These things are very unlikely but do sometimes happen so it is best to get some type of temporary custody agreement in writing and legally binding.
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Originally Posted by Hopes
No. That's not true. Although I was talking about his house, I meant what I said and it applies to her house too. Until formal custody is established, he isn't kidnapping his own baby because there are no documents saying he doesn't have custody. He has every legal right to have the baby in his possession as her. If he files for custody, the baby can remain with him until it's all sorted out. They don't need to claim abandonment to initiate custody when no custody was established.
It is very rare, but it did happen to my girlfriend. She and the police stood on the sidewalk and watched the father of her child driving back and forth down the street refusing to give her the baby. The police told her there was nothing they could do because he had every legal right to the child since he was the father and there was no custody established in court. It's very unlikely to happen with the OP, but it's important to be aware and reduce the risk by quickly establishing custody in court and not allowing the child to be alone with him until then.
There is no reason to panic. It's just something to handle wisely. I'm merely impressing the importance ofnot delaying formalization of custody and visitation in court.
I am not an attorney, and even an attorney from one state may not know all of the details from another state.
Best advice-----have your daughter see an attorney in your state and know her rights and responsibilities.
"The unmarried mother is presumed to have the primary or natural right to custody of children born when she is not married. Therefore, she has the legal right to custody, care, and control over the child and her rights are superior to those of the father or any other person…...Unmarried fathers can take action to be awarded custody of a child. In most states, if the father’s name is on the child’s birth certificate, he will automatically be recognized as the child’s legal father and have an equal amount of standing in court as the mother."
So while he may have the right to go to court and request visitation or joint custody he does NOT have the right to kidnap his own child and expect the police not to get involved.
Police don't get involved in this stuff when there's no custody and visitation documents. It's a domestic issue and they defer to the court. Since the father has equal standing in court, the police will leave the child with the father until his day in court unless a judge tells him to give the child back. Police aren't judges. They don't make decisions without court documents telling them which decisions to make.
You should have included the full text from the link you provided because you chose to exclude an important part with "...." You copied every single part of those two paragraphs in that link and purposely excluded the most important sentence about abandonment (in bold below), which is very relevant to what I was sharing about her not leaving the child at his house until there is an formal custody and visitation agreement.
Quote:
Unmarried Mother's Primary Right To Custody
The unmarried mother is presumed to have the primary or natural right to custody of children born when she is not married. Therefore, she has the legal right to custody, care, and control over the child and her rights are superior to those of the father or any other person. These rights can be defeated if it can be shown that the mother is unfit or has abandoned the child.
What Custody Rights Does An Unmarried Father Have?
Unmarried fathers can take action to be awarded custody of a child. In most states, if the father’s name is on the child’s birth certificate, he will automatically be recognized as the child’s legal father and have an equal amount of standing in court as the mother. Otherwise, a father's rights depend on his suitability to have custody. An unwed father cannot win primary physical custody over a mother who is a good parent, but may be able to establish some custody or visitation rights.
Police don't get involved in this stuff when there's no custody and visitation documents. It's a domestic issue and they defer to the court. Since the father has equal standing in court, the police will leave the child with the father until his day in court unless a judge tells him to give the child back.
You should have included the full text from the link you provided because you chose to exclude an important part with "...." You copied every single part of those two paragraphs in that link and purposely excluded the most important sentence about abandonment (in bold below), which is very relevant to what I was sharing about her not leaving the child at his house until there is an formal custody and visitation agreement.
Yes, if in COURT he can establish abandonment. Kidnapping is kidnapping and a man, without benefit of marriage or a legal document is not related to the child and cannot keep a child and expect the police to call it a domestic matter (when they do not live together and never have btw). It is literally the same situation as a babysitter keeping a child and claiming abandonment.
Unmarried women have initial custody UNTIL there is a court proceeding.
It is plain old fear mongering and downright cruel to tell the OP that allowing the father unsupervised visitation, even for a moment can lead to him kidnapping the child and police allowing it.
Yes, if in COURT he can establish abandonment. Kidnapping is kidnapping and a man, without benefit of marriage or a legal document is not related to the child and cannot keep a child and expect the police to call it a domestic matter (when they do not live together and never have btw). It is literally the same situation as a babysitter keeping a child and claiming abandonment.
Unmarried women have initial custody UNTIL there is a court proceeding.
It's quite telling that you purposely excluded that particular sentence from your quote.
The birth certificate is a legal document stating his related to the child. It's not kidnapping if he keeps the child from the mother and files for custody in court on the grounds of abandonment. It will all get sorted out in the mother's favor eventually in court, but no mother would want to go through that period of separation until it is. It's better to error on the side of caution and quickly legalize everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
is plain old fear mongering and downright cruel to tell the OP that allowing the father unsupervised visitation, even for a moment can lead to him kidnapping the child and police allowing it.
This isn't fear mondering and it's not meant to be cruel. It's warning to the OP to not let the daughter drag her feet about formalizing custody and visitation. It's important she doesn't leave the baby with him until she does. It happened to a friend of mine. I never said it could lead him to take the child or that he is more likely to take the child than other fathers. I'm merely saying it is something important to be aware of when there isn't anything formalized in court.
It's quite telling that you purposely excluded that particular sentence from your quote.
The birth certificate is a legal document stating his related to the child. It's not kidnapping if he keeps the child from the mother and files for custody in court on the grounds of abandonment. It will all get sorted out in the mother's favor eventually in court, but no mother would want to go through that period of separation until it is. It's better to error on the side of caution and quickly legalize everything.
This isn't fear mondering and it's not meant to be cruel. It's warning to the OP to not let the daughter drag her feet about formalizing custody and visitation. It's important she doesn't leave the baby with him until she does. It happened to a friend of mine. I never said it could lead him to take the child or that he is more likely to take the child than other fathers. I'm merely saying it is something important to be aware of when there isn't anything formalized in court.
Making things up, when the lawyers, the law, and more importantly the law in the OPs state, say clearly that the mother "has a natural right to custody SUPERIOR to that of the father" and literally NOTHING says he can kidnap his child, and NOTHING says the police treat it as a domestic dispute and ignore it, is fear mongering.
Please provide some SHRED of evidence to support this claim or stop scaring this woman who is already under enough stress. She even said she is panicked over the thought of her grandchild visiting her father while the mother runs errand. That is cruel. Enough with this nonsense already.
I didn't mean to make you panic. Just pointed out some legal issues to check before the time comes.
It's ok. I know that. You haven't been an alarmist this whole time. Just sound advice and I appreciate it.
I have so much on my plate right now that the slightest little addition is going to make it tip. Sometimes it just helps to vent and then I come on here and all of you that have truly been helping me through this journey bring me back to some stability.
I think you all have saved me some money on therapy
I will be sure to keep you posted on our progress throughout. I'm also sure I will panic again before long. I really wish my husband were here right now though. Maybe he could help fan the flames every now and again. Or at least help with the rides.
I don't want my oldest one driving around needlessly right now.
She's at school right now taking a final exam that she pre arranged wit the prof to take it early. That was smart thinking and if she does go at least she has one out of the way.
May not be as soon as you think. A woman can be dilated for a couple of weeks before labor starts.
The FOB is an immature idiot. He knows that this is his child. He doesn't realize that getting a paternity test done on a fetus is an unnecessarily invasive procedure? How does he think it's done? By ultrasound? They can have the paternity test done at the hospital, and let him pay for it entirely, since your daughter knows that he's the father (and so does he). I think it's really rich that on the one hand, he's insisting on a paternity test, while on the other hand, he's saying that he's not paying support, AND he's going to ignore the needs of a breastfeeding baby, and insist on overnight visits at his house. What an immature, asinine, jerk. Seems like it's probably a good idea to delay putting him on the birth certificate until the test is back.
I tell parents to NEVER let that baby out of their sight, not even in the pediatrician's office. It's entirely reasonable for your daughter to not be separated from that infant ever until school starts again in September, and then only for classes. She should not go back to work until after she sees how well she can manage school and the baby in the fall. They can work out visitation after the paternity test, after the breastfeeding is well-established, and let the court determine custody, support, and visitation. That should take at least until next fall. I'm all for father's rights, but NO court would order that a breastfeeding newborn be separated from mom to visit dad's home, and she MUST NOT give in to this, offering to separate herself from her newborn voluntarily when no court would order it. It's time to have a conversation with your daughter about how a mother has to do everything to protect her child, no matter what, and she needs to keep that newborn by her side, just as fiercely as any mama bear would.
Don't let the FOB and his family stress you out. Concentrate on how wonderful that newborn grandchild is going to be. Ask the younger girls to hang in there - tell them how much you need their patience, love, and support. Soon the baby will be here, it will be summer vacation, no school stress, much more calm. Don't make yourself crazy over thoughts of the FOB and his family. Nothing bad is likely to happen from them, as long as your daughter doesn't agree to leave the baby with them. Just keep thinking about that grandchild who's almost here - gotta be your happy place right now!
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