why do people move back up north after moving down south? (Buffalo: HOA, calculator)
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My wife heard the other day that people that moved down south from ny are now moving back. has anybody you know (yourself included) done this? If so why? We're wondering because we've thought from time to time about moving down south but would like to know the downsides that other northerners have experienced.
Well, I don't know about all Northerners, but in the case of New Yorkers who live in the five boroughs of NYC, many believe that NYC is the only place on this earth worth living, let alone all of he USA, and that those who live normally--those with normal times and distances for commutes along paved roads; those who actually seem to not be stressed out or angry all the time; those who don't live to be a slave to work; those who can afford their bills as well as save; those who send their kids to public schools without worry that there is a high chance their kids will be terrorized or go astray and become gang members,drug addicts, do-nothings, graffiti writers, and pre-sexualized s---s or just overall confused; those who don't have to keep fleeing from one town to the next for various reasons; and so on--are lazy, are "too laid back", are unsophisticated, and are boring. They don't have the desire of those in the tri-state to be constantly busy, busy, busy; and productive, productive, productive; and ambitious, ambitious, ambitious; and aren't striving for "never ending improvement".
Besides, my absolute favorite: "there's nothing to do there". (As if people in 40-something states have nothing to do.)
"Whatcha gonna do? The bars close at reasonable hours. You have to walk or drive places because business and people aren't crammed next to one another and there might actually be 1/8 to 1/2 a mile between you and your neighbors or stores and commerce centers. You might actually have to take in and appreciate nature and not be constantly stimulated by a hundred forms of entertainment, noises, and sounds. People move back because they miss the chaos they grew accustomed to because heaven forbid they are at peace with themselves in a serene environment.
Several reasons to leave south:
- isolation from family, especially if living beyond 1 day driving distance
- oppressive spring/summer/fall heat and humidity
- cost of living (depends where you live of are from of course) higher in many southern states than central or WNY - you can find cheap in the south but you get what you pay for
- no roots in south, no family history, no sense of belonging unless with other expats
- live in an area where most people are transient, few long lasting friends or acquaintances
- rapid changes, not always welcome, living in boom towns - traffic, construction, local crowding, area sprawl, rapid changes in neighborhood and area quality
- southern politicians and politics are at best depressing or at worst horrifying
- moved south for work, never wanted to leave NY, never planned to stay in south
Well, I don't know about all Northerners, but in the case of New Yorkers who live in the five boroughs of NYC, many believe that NYC is the only place on this earth worth living, let alone all of he USA, and that those who live normally--those with normal times and distances for commutes along paved roads; those who actually seem to not be stressed out or angry all the time; those who don't live to be a slave to work; those who can afford their bills as well as save; those who send their kids to public schools without worry that there is a high chance their kids will be terrorized or go astray and become gang members,drug addicts, do-nothings, graffiti writers, and pre-sexualized s---s or just overall confused; those who don't have to keep fleeing from one town to the next for various reasons; and so on--are lazy, are "too laid back", are unsophisticated, and are boring. They don't have the desire of those in the tri-state to be constantly busy, busy, busy; and productive, productive, productive; and ambitious, ambitious, ambitious; and aren't striving for "never ending improvement".
Besides, my absolute favorite: "there's nothing to do there". (As if people in 40-something states have nothing to do.)
"Whatcha gonna do? The bars close at reasonable hours. You have to walk or drive places because business and people aren't crammed next to one another and there might actually be 1/8 to 1/2 a mile between you and your neighbors or stores and commerce centers. You might actually have to take in and appreciate nature and not be constantly stimulated by a hundred forms of entertainment, noises, and sounds. People move back because they miss the chaos they grew accustomed to because heaven forbid they are at peace with themselves in a serene environment.
Several reasons to leave south:
- isolation from family, especially if living beyond 1 day driving distance
- oppressive spring/summer/fall heat and humidity
- cost of living (depends where you live of are from of course) higher in many southern states than central or WNY - you can find cheap in the south but you get what you pay for
- no roots in south, no family history, no sense of belonging unless with other expats
- live in an area where most people are transient, few long lasting friends or acquaintances
- rapid changes, not always welcome, living in boom towns - traffic, construction, local crowding, area sprawl, rapid changes in neighborhood and area quality
- southern politicians and politics are at best depressing or at worst horrifying
- moved south for work, never wanted to leave NY, never planned to stay in south
Several reasons to leave south:
- isolation from family, especially if living beyond 1 day driving distance agreed
- oppressive spring/summer/fall heat and humidity hmm, spring and fall are pretty nice in most of the South, and winters not bad either.Some also like the summer heat.
- cost of living (depends where you live of are from of course) higher in many southern states than central or WNY - you can find cheap in the south but you get what you pay for true, you get what you pay for, but I'm still of the opinion that even major Southern cities are cheaper than most, if not all, of NYS
- no roots in south, no family history, no sense of belonging unless with other expats agreed
- live in an area where most people are transient, few long lasting friends or acquaintances I know in NC, its the top state where people who are born there, stay there. So this isn't always the case.
- rapid changes, not always welcome, living in boom towns - traffic, construction, local crowding, area sprawl, rapid changes in neighborhood and area quality true, but I've also seen sprawl that's quite tasteful, and adds to the character if its done right.All that building provides work too vs a stagnant area
- southern politicians and politics are at best depressing or at worst horrifying agreed, some of its downright horrifying, e.g. the current NC governor - moved south for work, never wanted to leave NY, never planned to stay in south
I personally know and know of many people who have moved down south from all over the northeast. I work with many of them, a few are family, a few neighbors and friends. This is a military town so many of them stay in the area once they retire and my job love to hire them. I do know just a few who moved back up north, because the place they were working at closed down when the economy went bad back in 2008. And in another case, this young lady couldn't adjust to small town living. I had a coworker who retired from the air force base here and he constantly complain about the area. He is from Pittsburgh and he loves the coast of living here but hate almost everything else. The vast majority seem to adjust well and have no problem. My cousin moved down from nyc when her kids were in middle school, they are all grown up now and love it here. They have only gone back to new York once since 2002.
I personally know and know of many people who have moved down south from all over the northeast. I work with many of them, a few are family, a few neighbors and friends. This is a military town so many of them stay in the area once they retire and my job love to hire them. I do know just a few who moved back up north, because the place they were working at closed down when the economy went bad back in 2008. And in another case, this young lady couldn't adjust to small town living. I had a coworker who retired from the air force base here and he constantly complain about the area. He is from Pittsburgh and he loves the coast of living here but hate almost everything else. The vast majority seem to adjust well and have no problem. My cousin moved down from nyc when her kids were in middle school, they are all grown up now and love it here. They have only gone back to new York once since 2002.
It is pretty common to see or to some degree, those in the military retire in the area of their last duty station. Even with bases in locations with 4 seasons, some former soldiers stay in the area.
- cost of living (depends where you live of are from of course) higher in many southern states than central or WNY - you can find cheap in the south but you get what you pay for true, you get what you pay for, but I'm still of the opinion that even major Southern cities are cheaper than most, if not all, of NYS
Baloney. Upstate New York is one of the most inexpensive areas in the country, even with property taxes that are high as a percentage of property value. Charlotte is cheaper than Buffalo? Really?
Baloney. Upstate New York is one of the most inexpensive areas in the country, even with property taxes that are high as a percentage of property value. Charlotte is cheaper than Buffalo? Really?
Is there a reason why you have such a nasty demeanor?
The answer to your question is Yes. The suburbs of many Southern cities will be cheaper than the suburbs of NY cities, when property taxes and utilities are factored in.
This suburban home is $150k, which yield a mortgage payment of $608/month at 4.5%. With taxes of $1,219 a year, your monthly cost for this home would be $709.58.
This suburban home is $145k, which yields a mortgage payment of $588 at 4.5%. With taxes of $4,560 a year, your monthly cost for this home would be $968.00 a month.
So, the home in NC (which I would argue is much nicer too), is $258 a month cheaper than the home in NY. That's not an insignificant amount, either. I've argued this point ad nauseam that taxes make a huge difference. I don't care to have another thread which I'm arguing this point either. If you think NYS is cheaper, by all means you can feel that way. I have no horse in this race and I don't care.
Is there a reason why you have such a nasty demeanor?
The answer to your question is Yes. The suburbs of many Southern cities will be cheaper than the suburbs of NY cities, when property taxes and utilities are factored in.
This suburban home is $150k, which yield a mortgage payment of $608/month at 4.5%. With taxes of $1,219 a year, your monthly cost for this home would be $709.58.
This suburban home is $145k, which yields a mortgage payment of $588 at 4.5%. With taxes of $4,560 a year, your monthly cost for this home would be $968.00 a month.
So, the home in NC (which I would argue is much nicer too), is $258 a month cheaper than the home in NY. That's not an insignificant amount, either. I've argued this point ad nauseam that taxes make a huge difference. I don't care to have another thread which I'm arguing this point either. If you think NYS is cheaper, by all means you can feel that way. I have no horse in this race and I don't care.
Nice try. The NC house is on a main road in the middle of nowhere. The Amherst home is a totally developed suburb in close proximity to everything. Also, Amherst has really good schools. Apex?
A better comparison would have been a house just south of Lockport. Try again.
Nice try. The NC house is on a main road in the middle of nowhere. The Amherst home is a totally developed suburb in close proximity to everything. Also, Amherst has really good schools. Apex?
A better comparison would have been a house just south of Lockport. Try again.
There is no place in Apex that's in the middle of nowhere. Its one of the more developed towns in that area. Do you even know what you are talking about?
The typical progression of this argument, when I show a house to someone that is $93,000 less over the course of 30 years, is to bring up schools, vehicle taxes, and HOA fees. So, how's this comparison:
That's a difference of $476 a month, or $171,000 over 30 years for an older style house. And assuming taxes double in that time, you'd have a paid off house and $14k in taxes per year. Of course, this means I hate NY, right? If you have an comparison where a house in NY is cheaper than NC with property taxes included, I'd love to see it.
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