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I've never had the heart to tell you this but those things are basically useless.
The first thing they do wrong is factor housing in to much. NY was a extremely prosperous long ago which has left a ton of houses, some of which are still in ok shape but in cities no sane person would ever set foot in. Unless one is a complete moron they don't ever expect to get as much house for as little money. So your gonna take less house or pay more money in exchange for safety and quality of life. I bet 99% of the people here would love to pay what I payed for my house and 99.99% of those couldn't live a week in this neighborhood. A house in Oneida can be had for under 50K or Fayetteville for 300K. Oh look honey an average house in the Syracuse area costs 150K. But that doesn't show that you either pay 300K or live in the ghetto. Other areas have 150K actually average houses. All numbers used for comparison and no effort was made to use the actual numbers in this case as anyone who's been to Upstate knows whats driving the "average" home cost down.
And the great big mac daddie doo-wop of them all, taxes. Somebody in NY might ride the system tax free in NY while someone without kids may get slaughtered but those sights don't pick that up. Take a tax free state (not all are but most are lower then NY) and compare it with NY and NY may win on the surface then add in the thousands and thousands and thousands in NYS income tax and the number change quick.
And a million other things. Nothing beats putting your feet on the ground. Give me one hour in a place and I can tell you more about what it would cost using then those sites could ever come close.
^Umm, no. That's not how it works, as it takes the apartment rent, mortgage payment and property tax averages into accountaccount. So, it is current and city/town/village/census designated place specific. Prices in Fayetteville do not have anything to do with what goes on in Oneida and even with taxes, housing around here can be more affordable that housing in many places. By the way, you can get homes for much less in Fayetteville. If your household income is as much as you say, then you could find something in the Fayetteville-Manlius SD. CNYHomes - Homes for Sale in Syracuse and Central New York - Your Search Results
You always have the answers. Reading your innerweb stuff the whole diaspora of NYers hardly makes sense. What are all the millions thinking when you make it sound so simple.
BTW I said on a good year we make that much. We work four jobs to keep up with NY taxes. Last year was a good year all around. This year won't be as good. I got clobbered on taxes and it turned out I could have actually worked far less and made more money in pocket. So this year I'll work less and make more. Moving more and more projects underground because of Albany so in the future it may be better.
You always have the answers. Reading your innerweb stuff the whole diaspora of NYers hardly makes sense. What are all the millions thinking when you make it sound so simple.
BTW I said on a good year we make that much. We work four jobs to keep up with NY taxes. Last year was a good year all around. This year won't be as good. I got clobbered on taxes and it turned out I could have actually worked far less and made more money in pocket. So this year I'll work less and make more. Moving more and more projects underground because of Albany so in the future it may be better.
I never said that I had all of the answers, but I try to back up my posts with some form of proof. How dare I?
Also, my point is that there are options if you wanted to stay. For instance, we made a little over half of what you guys made and made it work, Thank God. I don't live in a bad neighborhood and the grad rate for the district I live in was 88% last year. So, there are alternatives out there.
^Umm, no. That's not how it works, as it takes the apartment rent, mortgage payment and property tax averages into accountaccount. So, it is current and city/town/village/census designated place specific. Prices in Fayetteville do not have anything to do with what goes on in Oneida and even with taxes, housing around here can be more affordable that housing in many places. By the way, you can get homes for much less in Fayetteville. If your household income is as much as you say, then you could find something in the Fayetteville-Manlius SD. CNYHomes - Homes for Sale in Syracuse and Central New York - Your Search Results
Wow- that cost of living index is WAY off. Has Boston at 100 (along with Syracuse). No way is Boston 100, maybe 150. Has NYC pegged right at 218, totally true. San Fransisco at 164, and San Fran home prices easily rival the NYC metro, if not higher. San Luis Obispo and Scranton both come in at 100, which is an absolute farce. You can't find anything in SLO for under $500k. You can't find anything in Scranton over $500k!
Bottom line is, facts are facts. Homes in Central NY are cheap. There's a reason for everything. Taxes are part of the reason, so you take that into account. Weather is another factor- there's no denying that 75 people prefer a sunny winter with less snow, if you asked 100 people. I happen to like snow, not 115" but at least 60". And the vacuum of manufacturing leaving has left many scars on the landscape, and the economy has struggled up there. These are indisputable facts, and there's plenty of data to back that up.
However, I think there's a shift in what is now important to people. Back to the city movements. Anti McMansions. Gentrification. Cities like Pittsburgh are now among the coolest cities to live in. Sprawling, hot areas like Florida, Arizona, and Las Vegas are trending downward. Fixing up historic homes and neighborhoods is not frowned upon anymore. Urban pioneers are everywhere and less people are getting married and having kids, plus there's more divorce (unfortunately). Single people are becoming the majority, and they want to live in a place that's fun and cheap, affordable on 1 income, but not necessarily good schools. Syracuse may be poised on the ground floor to all of this happening. I hope it is. I don't know for sure, its anyone's guess if it will come to fruition. I've actually begun to look more in cities myself vs. the more sterile burbs. I'm single and I don't need a good school district, but love old homes with character and low prices. Times are changing.
It is an index based on average or median pay in relation to the cost of living, if I'm not mistaken. That's how many of the areas supposedly come to that 100 ranking, but I was a little bit skeptical too.
As for the Upstate economy, manufacturing on a large scale has taken a hit, but in some parts, smaller firms/companies have held their own or have done fine. There is slowly, but steadily a shift to industries like health care, higher education and service industries. Many people also may not know that an industry like insurance/risk management is a major employer of people in some areas. Central NY has the second highest employment in that industry for areas east of the Mississippi River. There are some tech firms/companies that are also doing alright. So, it depends on a person's skills and education too.
As for the city movement, I think that many cities and even villages, big and small, offer the infrastructure and relatively affordable price in order to attract people, if done properly. I can see communities with colleges doing well in this regard, as they have a variety of things to offer and you can walk to these places as well. Some, if not most, even have some public transportation too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageSunlight
Wow- that cost of living index is WAY off. Has Boston at 100 (along with Syracuse). No way is Boston 100, maybe 150. Has NYC pegged right at 218, totally true. San Fransisco at 164, and San Fran home prices easily rival the NYC metro, if not higher. San Luis Obispo and Scranton both come in at 100, which is an absolute farce. You can't find anything in SLO for under $500k. You can't find anything in Scranton over $500k!
Bottom line is, facts are facts. Homes in Central NY are cheap. There's a reason for everything. Taxes are part of the reason, so you take that into account. Weather is another factor- there's no denying that 75 people prefer a sunny winter with less snow, if you asked 100 people. I happen to like snow, not 115" but at least 60". And the vacuum of manufacturing leaving has left many scars on the landscape, and the economy has struggled up there. These are indisputable facts, and there's plenty of data to back that up.
However, I think there's a shift in what is now important to people. Back to the city movements. Anti McMansions. Gentrification. Cities like Pittsburgh are now among the coolest cities to live in. Sprawling, hot areas like Florida, Arizona, and Las Vegas are trending downward. Fixing up historic homes and neighborhoods is not frowned upon anymore. Urban pioneers are everywhere and less people are getting married and having kids, plus there's more divorce (unfortunately). Single people are becoming the majority, and they want to live in a place that's fun and cheap, affordable on 1 income, but not necessarily good schools. Syracuse may be poised on the ground floor to all of this happening. I hope it is. I don't know for sure, its anyone's guess if it will come to fruition. I've actually begun to look more in cities myself vs. the more sterile burbs. I'm single and I don't need a good school district, but love old homes with character and low prices. Times are changing.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 06-03-2012 at 06:23 AM..
Bottom line is, facts are facts. Homes in Central NY are cheap. There's a reason for everything. Taxes are part of the reason, so you take that into account. Weather is another factor- there's no denying that 75 people prefer a sunny winter with less snow, if you asked 100 people. I happen to like snow, not 115" but at least 60". And the vacuum of manufacturing leaving has left many scars on the landscape, and the economy has struggled up there. These are indisputable facts, and there's plenty of data to back that up.
However, I think there's a shift in what is now important to people. Back to the city movements. Anti McMansions. Gentrification. Cities like Pittsburgh are now among the coolest cities to live in. Sprawling, hot areas like Florida, Arizona, and Las Vegas are trending downward. Fixing up historic homes and neighborhoods is not frowned upon anymore. Urban pioneers are everywhere and less people are getting married and having kids, plus there's more divorce (unfortunately). Single people are becoming the majority, and they want to live in a place that's fun and [B
cheap[/b], affordable on 1 income, but not necessarily good schools. Syracuse may be poised on the ground floor to all of this happening. I hope it is. I don't know for sure, its anyone's guess if it will come to fruition. I've actually begun to look more in cities myself vs. the more sterile burbs. I'm single and I don't need a good school district, but love old homes with character and low prices. Times are changing.
This may well be the most bestest post in CD history.
Way to often here all we hear about is the rosy side of life. Mostly from people living in the super safe and expensive suburbs or the 2K/Month "lofts".
The millions who still live in NY in the small towns are getting forgotten. We dump so much money into dead cities that are beyond repair.
I think it could still be possible to save many places in NY. I'm lost why its not even tried. New devolpements get built every day needing new roads, water and sewer systems and the whole nine. Meanwhile hundreds/thousands of these systems are already in place all over the state.
The list of problems is long and solutions touch on taboo subjects that nobody wants to talk about. Things like Section 8 that allow welfare people to destroy neighborhoods. Police forces that are useless. Why gangbangers seem to have guns and taxpayers don't.
But nope, lets not talk about and fix the issues. Lets just walk away build another new development for the rich, let the scums have the old and force the middle class to different states.
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