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I regard Rogue One as an ensemble movie. Felicity Jones did fine. Jyn Erso may seem one-note, but she's not supposed to be a quip factory who fusses with her hair and dreams about dating. She's what she is because of tragedy and indifference.
In other words, she's a better version of Brie's Larson's Carol Danvers.
Ha! Yes. True.
ROGUE ONE did a great job showing us Jyn Erso's origin. But how does she get to where we meet her? When we meet her, she is sort of lost soul, a criminal and a vagabond. Fine. But what does she want? What motivates her? And you don't necessarily need three scenes and ten more minutes of story to establish that. The original STAR WARS told us all we needed to know about Luke with a few bits of dialogue and one sunset. ROGUE ONE never quite gave Jyn Erso that moment.
ROGUE ONE did a great job showing us Jyn Erso's origin. But how does she get to where we meet her? When we meet her, she is sort of lost soul, a criminal and a vagabond. Fine. But what does she want? What motivates her? And you don't necessarily need three scenes and ten more minutes of story to establish that. The original STAR WARS told us all we needed to know about Luke with a few bits of dialogue and one sunset. ROGUE ONE never quite gave Jyn Erso that moment.
I think the intention of the the Saw Gererra scenes was to fill us in on that, but I think they forget where they were supposed to be going with those.
It can be said of most war movies that "all the characters are forgotten." That's one of the points of war.
OTOH, you can't say that their actions were pointless, in that they discovered and transmitted the plans that led to the destruction of the Death Star.
Take as another example, a recent popular war movie. Because of the valiant effort of one solder, 2,000 troops were saved that day. But they're going to die the next day. Or the next week. Or the next month. And the soldier who saved them that day will be forgotten in history. Hell, he had been forgotten by all but one other soldier before that day was even over.
And that is generally the nature of a war story.
While what you say is true, I don’t think the argument holds up well in light of the fact that Rogue One takes place right before the original. Star Wars has always adhered to traditional black and white morality where heroes are venerated. The real reason why they are actually forgotten is because those characters didn’t exist at the time the original trilogy was made.
While I’m at it, I will say that I also disliked the fact that Rogue One introduced the idea that the Death Star’s weakness is a result of intentional sabotage. I like the original idea that the Empire simply overlooked certain things and the rebels found out a potential weakness and decided to try and exploit it. That way when the Death Star II is built, the Empire decides to fix their original mistake (which is the way things are presented in Return of the Jedi).
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
That was at the behest of Gareth Edwards. Jyn Erso survives in the screenplay's first draft. He asked Kathleen Kennedy if he could change that so they all die, and to his surprise, she agreed.
Their sacrifice is what really sells the film.
They needed to die from a practical standpoint as they don’t appear anywhere else. Had Jyn Erso survived she probably would have been shoehorned into the sequel trilogy which would have made things far worse. I heard rumours that Jyn was supposed to be related to Rey., though I’m not sure if there’s any truth to that.
They needed to die from a practical standpoint as they don’t appear anywhere else. Had Jyn Erso survived she probably would have been shoehorned into the sequel trilogy which would have made things far worse. I heard rumours that Jyn was supposed to be related to Rey, though I’m not sure if there’s any truth to that.
I hope not! I grew so tired of them trying to connect every dot. The last straw was when Dooku was revealed to have once been Yoda's padawan.
Jyn surviving would make no sense because there's no mention of her in the OT or PT (because she didn't yet exist), so inserting her presence into the new trilogy would have had all the finesse of shoving a raw turkey up somebody's arse without Crisco.
I hope not! I grew so tired of them trying to connect every dot. The last straw was when Dooku was revealed to have once been Yoda's padawan.
Jyn surviving would make no sense because there's no mention of her in the OT or PT (because she didn't yet exist), so inserting her presence into the new trilogy would have had all the finesse of shoving a raw turkey up somebody's arse without Crisco.
Don't get me started on "Rey Palpatine"...
It’s a problem that’s been brewing since the prequels, but Disney took it to the next level. Your second paragraph illustrates perfectly what’s wrong with that approach. Why would Jyn suddenly appear so many years down the line if she has been absent for an extended period.
Palpatine’s reappearance was another dumb thing. There was no buildup leading to him. It would have been better if either Snoke hadn’t been killed or Kylo became the new antagonist.
Disney’s movies are anchored around the OT to the point of ridiculousness. Had Lucas not been involved with the prequels, I reckon Disney would have retconned them as well. They are barely acknowledged in the sequels. In fact, other than during the opening crawl, none of the promotional material involving the sequels even mentions the episode number (they are referred to exclusively by name).
While what you say is true, I don’t think the argument holds up well in light of the fact that Rogue One takes place right before the original. Star Wars has always adhered to traditional black and white morality where heroes are venerated. The real reason why they are actually forgotten is because those characters didn’t exist at the time the original trilogy was made.
Absolutely perfect heroes was still credible in movies in 1977, although they had already been on the wane for a decade.
Again, having everyone or nearly everyone perish to complete the mission is a standard war movie trope.
Quote:
While I’m at it, I will say that I also disliked the fact that Rogue One introduced the idea that the Death Star’s weakness is a result of intentional sabotage. I like the original idea that the Empire simply overlooked certain things and the rebels found out a potential weakness and decided to try and exploit it. That way when the Death Star II is built, the Empire decides to fix their original mistake (which is the way things are presented in Return of the Jedi).
OTOH, I and many people think that was a brilliant way of covering what was otherwise an inexcusably stupid engineering fault.
Quote:
They needed to die from a practical standpoint as they don’t appear anywhere else. Had Jyn Erso survived she probably would have been shoehorned into the sequel trilogy which would have made things far worse. I heard rumours that Jyn was supposed to be related to Rey., though I’m not sure if there’s any truth to that.
Actually, they could have easily kept them alive merely by giving them the names of minor characters that had already popped up in the original trilogy. There's no reason why they would have continued to be celebrated in any particular way during the course of the war--they would have merely gone back into the ranks, or back out into the field. I could name a good number of heroic Vietnam missions that some military veterans know, but have never become general knowledge even within the military.
I'd argue that even if they had survived the mission, their names would not have been publicized. They would definitely have been put back into ranks and sent back out into the field, never appearing in the limelight again.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
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This movie was horrendous. The nitwit actor playing Han Solo decided to do his own thing instead of playing Harrison Ford's Han Solo. If you're a Star Wars fan, avoid this film like the plague.
This movie was horrendous. The nitwit actor playing Han Solo decided to do his own thing instead of playing Harrison Ford's Han Solo. If you're a Star Wars fan, avoid this film like the plague.
I dont care how hard core of a star wars fan you are.....anything after return of the jedi is pure garbage and just a bad film. There really isn't an argument to be made. I am a casual fan and the movies are just trash. Id even say Return of the Jedi is kinda meh...I mean fat dwarf size chipmunks bring down the empire? Its pretty laughable.
But Solo.....why even bother? Well I know why. Star Wars nerds will buy any turd that gets branded.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,585 posts, read 15,707,871 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87
I dont care how hard core of a star wars fan you are.....anything after return of the jedi is pure garbage and just a bad film. There really isn't an argument to be made. I am a casual fan and the movies are just trash. Id even say Return of the Jedi is kinda meh...I mean fat dwarf size chipmunks bring down the empire? Its pretty laughable.
But Solo.....why even bother? Well I know why. Star Wars nerds will buy any turd that gets branded.
I saw it because I'm a Han Solo fan. And I expected to see Han Solo, not some actor just doing his own thing and "re-imagining" the character.
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